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Frustrated neighborhood and burglaries: 'Call 911 and get out your gun!'

BigDave

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antispam540 wrote:
Let's put this to rest, BigDave. Yes, if you know it's an old man sitting down on your couch with no weapons or threatening motions, then it'd be dumb to shoot him. The problem is, when someone breaks into your house, you're not going to know if it's an unarmed mentally ill person, an ancient man who only wants to sit on your sofa, or an armed BG intending to harm you or your family. In cases where you DON'T KNOW who it is and what their intent / capabilities are, and a reasonable person COULD believe their life is in danger, THEN you ARE justified in shooting.
Oh I agree with putting this to rest as the statement of legally being able to fire way is irresponsible, I would explain again but some just do not want to understand the issue that amount of force necessary to stop the threat is paramount in these situations.
 

olypendrew

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antispam540 wrote:
Let's put this to rest, BigDave.  Yes, if you know it's an old man sitting down on your couch with no weapons or threatening motions, then it'd be dumb to shoot him.  The problem is, when someone breaks into your house, you're not going to know if it's an unarmed mentally ill person, an ancient man who only wants to sit on your sofa, or an armed BG intending to harm you or your family.  In cases where you DON'T KNOW who it is and what their intent / capabilities are, and a reasonable person COULD believe their life is in danger, THEN you ARE justified in shooting.

The problem is that some people seem to think that one would be legally justified in shooting ANYONE found in their house, without regard for the particular facts and circumstances, or even if they are subjectively not in fear. BigDave has been correcting people on this point.
 

amzbrady

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Is your garage still considered your dwelling and or abode? If so how about if is dettached? If so what about your carport? If so what about your shed? RV? Van? Mailbox? Just wondering where your abode ends? What makes an abode and abode? Just a roof, a roof and walls, a roof and walls, and a floor, windows, a door? If I tarped my whole property and occasionally slept outside could I consider that my abode? Just wondering...
 

Aaron1124

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amzbrady wrote:
Is your garage still considered your dwelling and or abode? If so how about if is dettached? If so what about your carport? If so what about your shed? RV? Van? Mailbox? Just wondering where your abode ends? What makes an abode and abode? Just a roof, a roof and walls, a roof and walls, and a floor, windows, a door? If I tarped my whole property and occasionally slept outside could I consider that my abode? Just wondering...
In my opinion, your "abode" is the property that you own.
 

BigDave

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amzbrady wrote:
Is your garage still considered your dwelling and or abode? If so how about if is dettached? If so what about your carport? If so what about your shed? RV? Van? Mailbox? Just wondering where your abode ends? What makes an abode and abode? Just a roof, a roof and walls, a roof and walls, and a floor, windows, a door? If I tarped my whole property and occasionally slept outside could I consider that my abode? Just wondering...
Your place of abode is in which your dwelling is, it can be your house, your RV if you are living in it, a hotel room.
The place of abode includes attached items as an attached porch or an attached garage as it is has an entrance into your home.
Your property as in your front/back yard is not your place of abode. The key wording here I believe is attached.

82 State v. Smith July 2003 118 Wn. App. 480 AGID, J. - James Smith appeals his conviction for unlawful display of a weapon in violation of RCW 9.41.270(1). The issue is whether Smith's display of a weapon in his backyard falls within the "place of abode" exception to the statute. RCW 9.41.270(3)(a). Smith's actions do not fall within the exception because a backyard is not "in" a person's place of abode. We therefore affirm.

35 Wn. App. 96, STATE v. HALEY [3] Weapons - Intimidation With Weapon - Abode Exception - What Constitutes - Deck. For purposes of the exception to the crime of intimidation with a weapon for acts committed while in the actor's place of abode (RCW 9.41.270(3)(a)), a deck attached to a dwelling constitutes a part of a place of abode. Court of Appeals: Holding that the deck was part of the juvenile's "place of abode" for purposes of the statutory exception to the definition of the crime, the court REVERSES the judgment.
This is dealing with RCW 9.41.270 do not confuse this with justifiable homicide as it deals with merely displaying a firearm in your place of abode. You step out the door and off the porch or step then it no longer applies and moves to the use of force in defending ones self. If there is no articulable threat of life or limb then one would be unlawful.

RCW 9.41.270 Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;
 

BigDave

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Aaron1124 wrote:
amzbrady wrote:
Is your garage still considered your dwelling and or abode? If so how about if is dettached? If so what about your carport? If so what about your shed? RV? Van? Mailbox? Just wondering where your abode ends? What makes an abode and abode? Just a roof, a roof and walls, a roof and walls, and a floor, windows, a door? If I tarped my whole property and occasionally slept outside could I consider that my abode? Just wondering...
In my opinion, your "abode" is the property that you own.
Aaron I understand that you are working toward becoming a law enforcement officer.
You are falling into the position may new and some old officers do and assume with our doing the research and misconceptions will disappear.

It is good you are doing your research ahead of time.
 

amzbrady

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Thanks BigDave, I didnt think anything un-attached would be included but wasnt completely sure of the garage. I thought that the Dwelling and Abode should also be clarified, especially for me, since some of my tools are worth "almost" as much as my family.
 

BigDave

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amzbrady wrote:
Thanks BigDave, I didnt think anything un-attached would be included but wasnt completely sure of the garage. I thought that the Dwelling and Abode should also be clarified, especially for me, since some of my tools are worth "almost" as much as my family.
Don't let the wife read that or you will be in that unattached dog house :celebrate
 

amzbrady

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BigDave wrote:
amzbrady wrote:
Thanks BigDave, I didnt think anything un-attached would be included but wasnt completely sure of the garage. I thought that the Dwelling and Abode should also be clarified, especially for me, since some of my tools are worth "almost" as much as my family.
Don't let the wife read that or you will be in that unattached dog house :celebrate
LOL, No Crap...:uhoh:
 

Aaron1124

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BigDave wrote:
Aaron1124 wrote:
amzbrady wrote:
Is your garage still considered your dwelling and or abode? If so how about if is dettached? If so what about your carport? If so what about your shed? RV? Van? Mailbox? Just wondering where your abode ends? What makes an abode and abode? Just a roof, a roof and walls, a roof and walls, and a floor, windows, a door? If I tarped my whole property and occasionally slept outside could I consider that my abode? Just wondering...
In my opinion, your "abode" is the property that you own.
Aaron I understand that you are working toward becoming a law enforcement officer.
You are falling into the position may new and some old officers do and assume with our doing the research and misconceptions will disappear.

It is good you are doing your research ahead of time.
I can say I'm thankful for finding this forum. It opened up a new light for me. I can also say, that I felt I knew quite a bit before finding this forum. The more I discover, the more I realize how little I really know.
 

BigDave

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Aaron1124 wrote:
I can say I'm thankful for finding this forum. It opened up a new light for me. I can also say, that I felt I knew quite a bit before finding this forum. The more I discover, the more I realize how little I really know.
Aaron this is what most say after attending a class from such schools as The Firearms Academy of Seattle and what you will learn there will carry over to your personal life and law enforcement as well.

Do yourself and your family a huge favor and take a couple of classes from them, you will never regret it, I promise.
 

Aaron1124

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BigDave wrote:
Aaron1124 wrote:
I can say I'm thankful for finding this forum. It opened up a new light for me. I can also say, that I felt I knew quite a bit before finding this forum. The more I discover, the more I realize how little I really know.
Aaron this is what most say after attending a class from such schools as The Firearms Academy of Seattle and what you will learn there will carry over to your personal life and law enforcement as well.

Do yourself and your family a huge favor and take a couple of classes from them, you will never regret it, I promise.
Thanks for the recommendation. I will definitely check it out.
 

Metal_Monkey

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gogodawgs wrote:
That's why I explained to my two teenage daughters that it is not a good idea to ever have boys come try to sneak in the house. :D

HA SAME reason I never did that when I was a hellion. Fathers are bad enough....don't need to jump in the fire face first ;) I would do the same though.
 
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