Gangbanger Looks Down My .45 Barrel !!!

[Ruby]

Tueller drill

We The People,

The Tueller Drill has to do with the amount of time it takes an attacker to cover 21 feet (now 28) and reach you. It has nothing to do with type of weapon. I believe it is 2 to 3 seconds. Read up on it. Practice situational awareness. 2 or 3 seconds is not enough time to unholster your gun, release the safety, aim and fire; hence, situational awareness.

 

[FallonJeeper]

We The People,

The Tueller Drill has to do with the amount of time it takes an attacker to cover 21 feet (now 28) and reach you. It has nothing to do with type of weapon. I believe it is 2 to 3 seconds. Read up on it. Practice situational awareness. 2 or 3 seconds is not enough time to unholster your gun, release the safety, aim and fire; hence, situational awareness.

@ 21 feet it was 1.3 to 1.5 seconds. 28 feet may increase the cover time to 2 seconds, or just under.

When somebody charges you, it's not for a hug. In Nevada fear of bodily injury or death are requirements for justifiable homicide. Your state laws may vary.

I don't need to see a gun or a knife, if that guy is charging me. There's no "level of force" requirement. That's for Law Enforcement. We know they have their own requirements. I don't have to match gun for gun, knife for knife or fist for fist. I just have to prove, in a court of law, that I had fear of bodily injury or death, and that it wasn't an agreed fight/duel, or I wasn't the initiator of the fight, meaning I didn't attack first. (yelling at a somebody for painting on a wall is not initiating)

The OP was right in what he did, regardless of his demeanor.

"Is graffiti or whatever on someone's property worth your life?!?" Really? How does telling somebody to stop painting on a wall go to risk of life? We have to go about our life. Sometimes people do bad things. A spray can is not a deadly weapon. And I certainly wouldn't expect a normal person to attack me for telling them to stop. But if the go nuts and want a physical confrontation, I'm prepared for that. Better prepared, if they are outside 21 - 28 feet. ;o)

He's lucky and so is the artist that it didn't result in a shooting. Even so, his shooting would have been justified, in my state.

 

[We-the-People]

that

The "tough guy" thing is a PERCEPTION among non carriers. Heck some people call me a "tough guy with an assault pistol" though they're almost universally joking about it. This because I carry a military pistol that is chambered for a rifle cartrige and holds 21 rounds + 40 more in the two spare mags. It doesn't mean I act tough, have an "attitude" (well I do but it's an attitude of awareness of my surroundings), or anything else negative. I didn't re-read the OP's post to see how he used it (the tough guy comment), with the style he wrote it in there would be no way to discern whether it was litterary licesnce or a snapshot of reality anyway.

As for the 21 foot rule, The Tueller Drill is helpful in demonstrating that you knew, before the altercation that caused you to have to use your weapon, that a threat does not have to be right on top of you to be a threat to your life. It is also good for educating a jury as to the capabilities of an attacker from a distance. 21 feet just happens to be the distance used in the Tueller Drill....and almost always the defender fails to keep the attacker at bay.....it is merely a tool of knowledge. One which demonstrates that just because you have a gun and the bad guy on the ground had a _______ that there IS A CASE FOR THE REASONABLENESS of the bad guy being shot at a distance of 10, 15, 20, OR MORE feet from you. It is intended to dispel any thoughts of "well you had a gun and he only had a knife" (or some other weapon).

 

[mommaof3]

So you draw to defend a transformer box? Talk about people who should NOT be armed.

My brain actually works much the way SteveIn writes. I have no idea why. I was actually able to follow it mostly... I don't think he drew to defend a transformer box, I think he drew to a percieved threat. I have no idea why the 'bandito' would take the time to cover his face...but whatever. He walked in a threatening manner and put his hand into his coat pocket. I would have drawn too. What is in his pocket? What is his intention? Why did he cover his face, 'rush' me and why is he pointing his pocket at me? Transformer box be damned...I would have been scared sh**less and used all my false bravado I could muster as I told the kid..."It aint worth dying over man" "you go your way, I'll go mine, It ain't gotta come to this". That is a scary situation he was in...a bit long and flowery essay(j/k!), but I would have done the same. I wouldn't know what was in his pocket and why it was pointing at me...and NOT in a good way!

 

[We-the-People]

We The People,

The Tueller Drill has to do with the amount of time it takes an attacker to cover 21 feet (now 28) and reach you. It has nothing to do with type of weapon. I believe it is 2 to 3 seconds. Read up on it. Practice situational awareness. 2 or 3 seconds is not enough time to unholster your gun, release the safety, aim and fire; hence, situational awareness.

If someone can't draw and fire in 3 seconds, they need more training/practice. Even concealed, it should not take 2 seconds to draw and fire. Open carry, 1 second should be more than enough time to draw and fire!

The key point of the Tueller drill isn't how long it takes to draw and fire but whether or not the assailant is going to get to you, or if you can stop the threat before it gets to you. An attacker that is set on getting to you may be "dead" from your first round having stuck a vital point but unless you have hit his central nervous system or support structure, he is still capable of continuing the attack and striking a blow.

 

[noname762]

Frito knows where you work and what time you arrive. Be careful out there.

Really???

What makes you think Frito knows how to tell time or even wears a watch??!!?

 

[CathyInBlue]

While the first priority for any defensive firearm carrier is avoidance, once the situation is in motion, it becomes too fluid to be able to make a statement that now you have to avoid any further interaction. Even in states with the most draconian duty-to-retreat laws include the language "in complete safety". The pacing is not entirely clear from the OP's excellent narrative. How close was he to that back door when Frito donned his bank-robber disguise? Could the OP really have closed the distance to his door, fumbled with the keys, unlocked the door, opened the latch, opened the door, stepped inside, closed the door behind him, closed the latch, and relocked the door before Frito closed that Tueller distance to cause SteveInAshland grievous bodily injury or death? I don't know. That would be for SIA to say, but I know for my money (read: life and limb) if I didn't know with metaphysical certainty that I could do so and leave Frito on the outside beating his fists against my door in impotent rage with plenty of time to spare, I'm drawing down on his little gang-banger ass too.

That being said, words mean things. And the words you use while in the process of defending your life can easily come back to haunt you in the court room. I would never make a statement to someone on who I have a sight picture like, "If you ____, then I'll ____." It makes it too absolute. It shows premeditation or predisposition for particular actions. Instead, in SIA's place, I'd have said something like, "If anything but your hand clears that pocket, it will go very badly for you." Not, "I'm gonna F*** you up, sucka!" Just, "It will be bad."

I throw my lot in with the crowd that says, "If you draw it, draw it with the intent of using it." That being said, there's many a slip twixt a cup and a lip. It's been said that a reasonable time frame from initiation of a deadly threat by an aggressor to grievous bodily injury or death can be as long (short?) as 2-3 seconds. That's a long time for the perception to be made in my brain, the (un)conscious decision to defend myself from the perceived threat with deadly force, the nerve impulses to travel down my arm to draw my sidearm and make it fully ready to fire, my sidearm to come up, my eyes to acquire a sight picture, all the while keeping mental and visual track of the aggressor and my backstop, and finally to move my index finger into the trigger guard and begin to squeeeeeze.

During that geological eon, there is much the aggressor can do to short-circuit that chain of events. Frito did one of the things that prevents the trigger being pulled, and that was to stop short and quick. In essence, he showed two things, a self-preservation instinct and excellent reaction time. Absent both of those things, once the sight picture is acquired and the finger goes to the bang-lever, another large step in my direction is all it takes send lead down-range. Frito was smart enough to not necessitate that, but he was stupid enough to cause the sequence of events that lead to its possibility.

The only major problem I would have with the fallout would be the lying liars on the stand in the form of Princess Magic Marker and Cornfed from my backstop.

 

[BillHoo]

I'm glad this all worked out without bloodshed.

(In my dreams), I would have had the two get their hands up in the air.

Then I would have them take off their jackets slowly and drop them to the floor.

Next, take off the shoes and pants.

Then back off 10 paces and lay on the ground.

Now, I would feel comfortable pulling out my phone and calling the cops.

The story can go any number of directions now to where they are thoroughly humilated as I send them running naked into the streets.

Ehhh. Probably better to just call the cops.

 

[SteveInAshand]

Really???

What makes you think Frito knows how to tell time or even wears a watch??!!?

Thank You Sir for the concern, 'Frito' as I call him, wakes up at 1pm ( as all dead beat , lazy dope smoking, Old English malt liquor swilling, sacks of Rose garden fertilizer do ) and so I cant be any more situational aware that I always am in the 1st place.


I just popped in to post a Ted Nugent headline in another forum thread and saw Your reply here,but I dont know if I forgot to tell You guy's ( and gal's ) that, the same day I had the 'Te Da Te' with the baggy pants loser I went inside and put my Level III-A vest on under my work clothes and went out and did my thing in the very busy plaza parking lot and grounds all the day as I know how cowardly these types are.

I also don't remember if I posted that the female that was with them precipitated that I don't go overboard and verbally run down Frito too much as the male ego will explode into a suicidal frenzy and attack me at all cost.

There is a very good chance that if You berate and hurt a male ego enough in front of his woman or potential future woman, or "home boy's " he will feel an unbearable need to prove himself and risk death with all the odd's against him , and he will come back for pay back.


We all know males are ego-testicle , lol which makes us as illogical as women the only difference is the sheer violence we males perpetrate in order to 'save face'.

I kind of realized that I shot my 'mouth gun' off after he shot his 'mouth gun' right off the bat.

I knew I had better pull back and check myself and don't push this too far as street people of all makes and models don't really have anything to loose and normal people with homes, family's, jobs, nice pick up trucks, boats, gun collections lol, aka assets and value for our health and freedom, we have so much more to loose, all the Fritos and Trayvons of this world have to loose is the life they don't even think is worth living , that and a hoodie and a couple tattoos so they are at a certain weird kind of advantage , they have already been to jail, they don't mind showering with 20 Mule Team Borax, they don't mind wearing rubber flip flop's , they don't mind Baloney sandwiches every day, they are so angry that they forget there are no sweet smelling loving women who make breakfast for you and clean you hunting rifle for you in jail , so in a sense they are insane and extremely illogical and violate , Christians call that 'possessed' , psychologists call that 'anti social' and 'male adjusted' , normal people call that 'punk' , lol. ( I am addicted to run on sentences , lol )

So I handled it wrong and got away with my ego-testicle trip over my own low hanging balls, and God saved me 'again' from my stupidity , all of us walked away ( him living - me free ) free from the grinding wheels of the system for another day. ( figuratively wiping the sweat beads off my forehead )

 

[SteveInAshand]

I'm glad this all worked out without bloodshed.

(In my dreams), I would have had the two get their hands up in the air.

Then I would have them take off their jackets slowly and drop them to the floor.

Next, take off the shoes and pants.

Then back off 10 paces and lay on the ground.

Now, I would feel comfortable pulling out my phone and calling the cops.

Or maybe I'd search the jacket for his alledged weapon. Would be nice to acquire a gun that's not traceable to me.

The story can go any number of directions now to where they are thoroughly humilated as I send them running naked into the streets.

Ehhh. Probably better to just call the cops.

Be Cool Brother, the "drop gun' you mentioned in this reply of yours is incriminating as to Your mind set in a possible future confrontation.

I would EDIT your reply if I were you because one day all of us could end up being Mr Zimmerman or stupid Steve > Me, lol.

Also, I have drawn down on a few of these mutts before out in public ( 20 + years ago ) and each time except 1 they all say "go ahead and shoot me and walk away giving me the finger, so it is the cops who they obey ( half the time ) other wise they run from the cops. They run if there is a chance to escape.

PEACE

 

[SteveInAshand]

You should be a writer.

If I don't shut the hell up in my 'pre-violence meetings' with the 'wandering minstrels of un-socialbility' ( street mutt's ) I will be 'writing' appeals in the prison library .

Zimmerman has got me shook up !!!

I have been to jail ( 7 traffic warrants for outrunning the cops on my race motorcycle in the 80's ) the 8th was a charm > hand cuff click < , and it ain't like prison on the History Channel, cause in jail they don't have no outside yard .

Jail SUCKS, can you imagine living under a grid of 4 rows of T8 florescent lights that NEVER get turned off !!!!

OHhhhh and they don't fix the bad ballasts so the lights have that flicker pulse that is in sync with your inner demon, so you start to go out of sync as a normal person visa vi the light pulse and into the low wave length of what I call ' the zombie pulse' , even your heart starts to slow and go into a throbbing timpanic syncopation with the living dead !!!!

Under the flickering florescent grid after 2 weeks , jacked up crystal meth users start to look mellow and normal, you can actually understand them , because ' the grid' has caused you to be in frequency with them, tweekers don't mind jail because the T8 grid flicker extends their high , LOL.

After 3 weeks under the grid, your skin starts to get a purple tan . Inches matter when your under the grid, You will do anything to get out of the light grid, you want to sleep on the bottom bunk, cause if you lay on the top bunk it is like being in a bizzar flickering tanning booth with no goggles, your white boy nose looks like crimson peace of Col Sander chicken drum stick sticking out of the from of your head after 3 weeks up near the grid !!!!

You don't sleep 'on' a pillow you sleep 'under' a pillow as a pillow is the only way to turn the lights off !!! and the pillows are not the AAA breast feather Goose down like mine, no they are made of Capok ( not the movie planet ) , the stuff that 1st generation WWII life preserver vests are made up, it is as hard as a stale loaf of Wonder bread, and farm tractor seats are stuffed with because Capok can with stand sunlight radiation !!!!!

After 4 weeks under the grid you can speak and understand Euboncis ( gangster slang ) fluently !!!!


After 5 weeks, everything takes on a radiant plasma aura.

Then they let you out of jail, you don't have a clue what day or what time of day it is, you walk outside and it could be raining or sunny ( you don't know ) you feel sympathy for war vet's who jump out of combat ( the sand box ) and into a plane and land in the states and you out of what I call 'time sync' , LOL.

A Capok vest ( life preserver ) can bock Alpha Beta & Gamma radiation !!!! when the bomb drops the only survivors will the the Capok zombies from the T8 grid LOL

Before You went to jail you use to love the sun, but now Your a zombie form the grid lol, the Sun now bothers you, it is a big eye staring at You LOL.
Your a 'florecer' from the grid now , when your buddies hand you their rifle loaded with Hornady Zombie Max ammo in it You start to quiver and sweat cause you secretly know that this stuff is the only ammo now that can kill you now.

 

[BillHoo]

Be Cool Brother, the "drop gun' you mentioned in this reply of yours is incriminating as to Your mind set in a possible future confrontation.

I would EDIT your reply if I were you because one day all of us could end up being Mr Zimmerman or stupid Steve > Me, lol.

Also, I have drawn down on a few of these mutts before out in public ( 20 + years ago ) and each time except 1 they all say "go ahead and shoot me and walk away giving me the finger, so it is the cops who they obey ( half the time ) other wise they run from the cops. They run if there is a chance to escape.

PEACE

Good advice and I know what you mean.. this being the internet and all.

In jest, I once offered all my shares of Apple computer stock (this was around 1998) to anyone who would bring me Gil Amelio's left ear. Next thing you know, I was being quoted in a national financial column with that challenge. I quickly retracted it and noted it was possible inappropriate humor, bfore some psycho actually took me up for it!

I jokingly point out that was a pivitol moment that allowed Steve Jobs to execute a reverse takeover of the company which once ousted him to build it up to what it is today.

Sometimes a joke is just a joke. Other times, it has some serious repercussions.

 

[SteveInAshand]

My brain actually works much the way SteveIn writes. I have no idea why. I was actually able to follow it mostly... I don't think he drew to defend a transformer box, I think he drew to a percieved threat. I have no idea why the 'bandito' would take the time to cover his face...but whatever. He walked in a threatening manner and put his hand into his coat pocket. I would have drawn too. What is in his pocket? What is his intention? Why did he cover his face, 'rush' me and why is he pointing his pocket at me? Transformer box be damned...I would have been scared sh**less and used all my false bravado I could muster as I told the kid..."It aint worth dying over man" "you go your way, I'll go mine, It ain't gotta come to this". That is a scary situation he was in...a bit long and flowery essay(j/k!), but I would have done the same. I wouldn't know what was in his pocket and why it was pointing at me...and NOT in a good way!

SOME ONE FINALLY UNDERSTANDS ME !!!! ............. I'M NOT ALL ALONE ON THIS PLANET ( forum ) !!!

 

[bobby68]

Question

1. I looked, but I only recall one reply suggest taking pictures or video/audio if possible. That might have been a better response to "what the F... are you looking at. "No offense, I'm admiring your artwork."

I had an incident with some kids/air soft pistols-I grabbed the video camera on the shelf (a present I was just learning to use) and filmed the kids, who waved the pistols around in anger as they saw me. The officer watched the video and went next door to confiscate the pistol without a word of complaint from the parents-they didn't even want to see the video.

2. as was noted, it is very likely that some criminal will falsely accuse you of everything/anything to protect themselves, or at least try. Taking out the video cam seems to throw them off their game as they realize they have a different set of variables than they are used to operating under.

3. I once met a group of hispanic teens in San Pedro, CA-I was visiting with a college roommate who's family lived next to one of these kids. It was a group of 14-15year olds, admiring the stainless .44 Mag snub nose with shoulder holster one of them had just acquired. And that was twenty years ago.

I suppose you never know when anyone is really armed.

 

[bobby68]

I'm glad this all worked out without bloodshed.

(In my dreams), I would have had the two get their hands up in the air.

Then I would have them take off their jackets slowly and drop them to the floor.

Next, take off the shoes and pants.

Then back off 10 paces and lay on the ground.

Now, I would feel comfortable pulling out my phone and calling the cops.

The story can go any number of directions now to where they are thoroughly humilated as I send them running naked into the streets.

Ehhh. Probably better to just call the cops.

I don't understand your qualifier "in my dreams". You Suggesting the use of a gun to force underaged boys and girls to take their clothes off could quickly be written up with you as a sex offender.

I once had a problem with neighbors, actually female friends and family of elderly neighbors who were known drug users and temporarily residing here having lost their own housing. Teenage daughter (12 or13) tried to insert herself into the situation while I was watching my 5 y.o. Daughter at the park, then again outside my own home by 'chatting me up' then later telling me 'I knew who you are...' to which I purposefully refused to respond. I detailed the situation in a letter (intending to send copies to the police and the property manager of the elderly couple) then contacted the police.

The officer asked me why I did not tell the girl to stop talking to me, and I responded that I did not want to be accused of harassing a minor - it is very easy for someone to make a false accusation, either to protect themselves after their own misbehavior, or to harass you because they can. And unless you have unarguable proof, like video or audio recording, then even a police officer can slant the story against you should the mood strike him/her to do so. In my case, I had a camera setup in my window! That wasn't always on. The officer advised me of the civil restraining order I could seek - he still wanted nothing to do with my letter, which I sent anyway to avoid any later accusation that I failed to inform the police. The letter to the property manager seemed to resolve the situation, as I suspect those relatives were not apart of the lease.

 

[Jack House]

Ignoring the whole sex offender aspect of it, forcing them to remove their shoes, pants and jackets before demanding them to the ground is rather stupid. It's like asking to get shot. Oh yeah, take off your shoes and your pants, take that opportunity to pull out your weapon and shoot me before I realize what's going on. I r smert.

There's a reason cops don't do it, pretty sure it's cause they don't wanna get shot. Could be wrong, though.

 

[Big Gay Al]

I think that's a very rational way to handle it. BUT, I don't think I would say a word to them because you are warning them. I would take some photos, though.

What? Like taking pictures wouldn't escalate things either? Most BGs don't like it if you take pictures of them doing bad things. They tend to get hostile.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I think this has been said before, but I will repeat it. A cop pulls a gun to stop a crime. A citizen pulls a gun to save a life, his or another. The gun should not be pointed at anything you do not have reason to or are willing to shoot. If I feel threatened there will be no conversation, there will be no threats, there will be no chance of turning back, otherwise it stays where it belongs. If it was me I would have went directly to work and called the cops.

The story was entertaining though, I am still chuckling.

 

[Big Gay Al]

Until we are each in the position of the OP, we can make all the conjecture we want to about what he should or should not have done. All the talk about shooting the perp is just that, talk.

Until you're put in that place, all you can do is speculate. I personally, would not be in such a hurry to end another person's life. As long as the threat remains, sure, keep your weapon out, and pointed in that direction. If you feel the need, pull the trigger. Obviously, for whatever reason, the OP did not feel the need to pull the trigger. I for one, am happy for him that he didn't.

I'd hate to think that anyone else would have to live with the nightmares I've had for over 30 years now. When you take a life, you NEVER forget it. No matter how justified, no matter that you were defending your life, and possibly the innocent lives of others. What remains is, you took a life, and for the rest of your life, you wish to God it had never happened.

Try living with that, and then tell me, or anyone else that what the OP did was wrong.

 

[WalkingWolf]

The OP admitted that he pushed it with his response. The Frito Bandito just by walking towards him with his hands in his waste is not enough to draw down on someone, unless he told him to stop first. Pointing a gun at someone in almost every state is aggravated assault, and if the Bandito had a gun IMO he would have been in his rights to defend himself. You or I or anyone else cannot just draw a gun on, hit, or do any type of violence just for somebody walking towards you. Remember this is what Trayvon did with Zimmerman when he approached his vehicle. Are you saying Zimmerman should have pulled his gun on him at that time? Misdemeanors are not justification for drawing a gun. If any of us that are not presently police officers pull a gun it should only be for one reason.

Most here are not cops, are not supposed to be enforcing the law. He should have called cops on him for indecent exposure not put himself in a situation that would have resulted in another media circus for us all.