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Going camping and need some info

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
imported post

Brian is correct. I talked w/ an attorney about the "purchase a pistol and get charged with concealed" issue and he basically said what Brian said. In fact, I believe that the only place that you could transport or carry a pistol at one time was to your home. Also, if you look through the Attorney General opinions until about the 1980's, the AG seems to underscore if you weren't bringing a pistol home for protection or getting it repaired, you basically could only transport to a range. Since that time, exceptions were carved out but very few legislators think to look through the other MCL's to see if the law needs to be cleaned up elsewhere. Eventually, someone may catch it, but it does tend to take many years.
 

coffee4meplz

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2010
Messages
56
Location
Warren, Michigan, USA
imported post

28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.

1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person shall not purchase, carry, possess, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section.

28.421 Definitions.

(b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB's not exceeding .177 caliber.

e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931


750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
Sec. 227.
(1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment

324.43513 Carrying, transporting, or possessing firearm, slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow; hunting license not required; carrying or possessing unloaded weapon.
Sec. 43513.

(1) A person may carry, transport, or possess a firearm without a hunting license if the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed in a case or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle. A person may carry, transport, or possess a slingshot, bow and arrow, or crossbow without a hunting license if the slingshot, bow, or crossbow is unstrung, enclosed in a case, or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle.

(2) Regardless of whether the person has a license or it is open season for the taking of game, a person may carry, transport, possess or discharge a firearm, a bow and arrow, or a crossbow if all of the following apply:

(a) The person is not taking or attempting to take game but is engaged in 1 or more of the following activities:

(i) Target practice using an identifiable, artificially constructed target or targets.

(ii) Practice with silhouettes, plinking, skeet, or trap.

(iii) Sighting-in the firearm, bow and arrow, or crossbow.

(b) The person is, or is accompanied by or has the permission of, either of the following:

(i) The owner of the property on which the activity under subdivision (a) is taking place.

(ii) The lessee of that property for a term of not less than 1 year.

(c) The owner or lessee of the property does not receive remuneration for the activity under subdivision (a).

(3) A person may carry or possess an unloaded weapon at any time if the person is traveling to or from or participating in a historical reenactment.


Laws are so confusing by design!

First law listed says I must obtain a License to purchase, carry or transport. That means I need to register my pistol. Registration would be my "License" correct?

Definition of pistol:

e) "Pistol" means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.

So now I went and registered my pistol (safety inspection) Which gives methe License that allows me to carry, posses or transport it but I am in violation because a pistol by definition "conceals it" . Is this correct? (you following me so far?)

The next cited law says: 1) A person may carry, transport, or possess a firearm without a hunting license if the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and either enclosed in a case or carried in a vehicle in a location that is not readily accessible to any occupant of the vehicle.

Now since "Pistol" was defined as a concealed weapon by design maybe this law wouldn't apply although "firearm" was also defined in the same section as "b) "Firearm" means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air." which doesn't exclude a pistol. So now I have aquired a "License" to purchase and transport my "Pistol" which by design is a concealed weapon which puts me in violation of a "CCW" but then I am allow to carry and transport this "concealed weapon" as long as it is unloaded and in a case?.....AHHHH my head hurts! but wait it gets better

750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.



Sec. 227d.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

(a) Taken down.

(b) Enclosed in a case.

(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.




"Pistol" has be defined as Loaded or Unloaded under 30 inches....Now this law say "other than a pistol" Which seems to imply that I can carry my unloaded or loaded, "conceal weapon" by design "pistol" in a motor vehicle because this law "other than"

I can go on and on....So my point is this, Laws are made to confuse people, confuse "peace officers", confuse judges and confuseour own legislators. Then these confusing laws are sent to the Attorney General to have him/her to give an opinion from his own cofused mind! Then some poor slob is arrested,sent to jail, goes to court, the confused judge then convicts, appeal is made, sent to supreme court where the try to figure out what all these confusing laws meant, make a ruling and then we, the confused law abiding citizen try to debate each other with case law on what we can and can not do.....Did I get this right?


Have you heard of "Rule of Lenity"

is a common-law canon of construction that requires courts, when interpreting an ambiguous criminal statute, to give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant, rather than the state
 

TheSzerdi

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
287
Location
Melvindale, Michigan, USA
imported post

I am not a lawyer and my opinion carries no legal weight. That being said, I believe that while on private property you can do whatever you want (CC/OC etc) with permission of the owner (excluding businesses and other land specifically regulated, of course.). While on public land and/or driving you would have to follow applicable law as cited by other posters.
 
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