Going to talk with the Autauga County Sheriff in the morning.

[eye95]

imported post

The law defines a "proper person." If he revokes a license arbitrarily, he can be sued.

 

[jaiotu]

imported post

eye95 wrote:

The law defines a "proper person." If he revokes a license arbitrarily, he can be sued.

Not talking about revoking "arbitrarily." What I'm talking about is the fact that the law allows the Sheriff to issue a CC license that is conditional. Failure to abide by those conditions would be enough to identify yourself as being an improper person.

For instance, the Sheriff of Elmore county might add a condition to the CC license that makes it invalid in a house of worship. If you then carry in a Church, you could have your license revoked. Or, he may stipulate that your CC license is only valid if you do not practice OC. The moment you begin OCing, you violate the conditions of the license.

Here's what the law says:

"The sheriff of a county, upon the application of any person residing in that county, may issue a qualified or unlimited license to such person to carry a pistol in a vehicle or concealed on or about his person within this state for not more than one year from date of issue, if it appears that the applicant has good reason to fear injury to his person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a pistol, and that he is a suitable person to be so licensed."

The two key issues here are that the Sheriff is not required to issue a permit at all. Secondly, if he does issue a permit, it can either be qualified or unlimited. If qualified, then the Sheriff can add additional stipulations to the license which are not covered in State law.

 

[Brimstone Baritone]

imported post

The qualifying factors on a CPL only apply to CC because the law only allows for the issuance of a permit to carry a concealed pistol. If they print a no "houses of worship" restriction then it would only apply to concealed weapons. Most Alabama CPL have the wording "This pistol permit does not permit you to openly carry" (or similar) which is supposed to make you think OC is illegal when really all it is saying is "This permit does not regulate OC." It can't restrict you from Open Carry any more that it could restrict you from voting or driving or owning a certain breed of dog. It just isn't applicable.

 

[eye95]

imported post

mcdonalk wrote:

The qualifying factors on a CPL only apply to CC because the law only allows for the issuance of a permit to carry a concealed pistol. If they print a no "houses of worship" restriction then it would only apply to concealed weapons. Most Alabama CPL have the wording "This pistol permit does not permit you to openly carry" (or similar) which is supposed to make you think OC is illegal when really all it is saying is "This permit does not regulate OC." It can't restrict you from Open Carry any more that it could restrict you from voting or driving or owning a certain breed of dog. It just isn't applicable.

Exactly. OC is a right. It is legally illogical for a government official to grant an individual a privilege that restricts a right. A restriction on a CPL that says you must answer all questions posed by a LEO while carrying would be similarly unenforceable. How do you think a judge would react to a LEO asking you, "Where are you going with that pistol?" your refusing to answer, and the sheriff pulling your permit? I think he'd rule that the sheriff violated your rights by punishing you for exercising your rights.

I think the same would apply to having your permit yanked for OCing--even if the sheriff puts that unenforceable restriction on the back of a CPL.

 

[jaiotu]

imported post

If you visit many of the county Sheriff's website regarding the issuance of CPLs, many of them have a little phrase like this down at the bottom of the site:

"[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]The Sheriff of Shelby County has the authority to issue, deny, and/or revoke a pistol permit at his discretion."

[/font]This is what sucks. If your CPL can be revoked at the Sheriff's "discretion," then the Sheriff really doesn't have to have a hard case against you to revoke it. Especially if he's not also charging you with a crime. While Open Carry is certainly not restricted under the Alabama Code, the Sheriff can, by revoking your CPL, severely restrict your ability to reasonably exercise that right. The requirement for maintaining a CPL in order to transport a weapon in your own car is simply ridiculous

The one thing protecting gun owners in Alabama right now is the fact that no elected official in the State wants to be identified as "anti-gun." They all like being re-elected.

The best thing to do is to positively assert your rights if you are open carrying. You don't need a CPL to OC, so don't show it to them. You also don't need a driver's license to be on foot. Don't show it to them. Remind them of your rights and if they refuse to let you go about your business ask them if you are under arrest or if you are being detained. If they try and and search you or your vehicle, tell them you don't consent to the search.[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
[/font]

 

[eye95]

imported post

jaiotu wrote:

If you visit many of the county Sheriff's website regarding the issuance of CPLs, many of them have a little phrase like this down at the bottom of the site:

"[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]The Sheriff of Shelby County has the authority to issue, deny, and/or revoke a pistol permit at his discretion."

[/font]This is what sucks. If your CPL can be revoked at the Sheriff's "discretion," then the Sheriff really doesn't have to have a hard case against you to revoke it. Especially if he's not also charging you with a crime. While Open Carry is certainly not restricted under the Alabama Code, the Sheriff can, by revoking your CPL, severely restrict your ability to reasonably exercise that right. The requirement for maintaining a CPL in order to transport a weapon in your own car is simply ridiculous

The one thing protecting gun owners in Alabama right now is the fact that no elected official in the State wants to be identified as "anti-gun." They all like being re-elected.

The best thing to do is to positively assert your rights if you are open carrying. You don't need a CPL to OC, so don't show it to them. You also don't need a driver's license to be on foot. Don't show it to them. Remind them of your rights and if they refuse to let you go about your business ask them if you are under arrest or if you are being detained. If they try and and search you or your vehicle, tell them you don't consent to the search.[font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]
[/font]

Just because they put it on their website does not make it true. The law is clear. Sheriffs may only revoke a permit if they find the holder not to be a "proper person." They cannot use the lawful exercise of a right as evidence of not being a "proper person." Not unless they want to explain to a judge why they are using the power of their office to stop folks from lawful exercise of a right.

 

[SFCRetired]

imported post

 

[JohnH]

imported post

I would like to add that the Weapon Code defines who the "not proper persons" are. You can go to http://www.alabamaopencarry.com click on "Documents and Tools" then click on "Alabama Weapon Code" or "AG Weapon Code"

 

[Ruger .454]

imported post

Gentlemen, what is this "trifold" thing that gets repeatedly mentioned?

 

[eye95]

imported post

It is a summary of the explanation of why OC is legal in AL. Go to the documents page of alabamaopencarry.com. You can download a copy there.