Gold Carry State

[Tess]

Thanks, Tess, for an objective response. I find it amazing that when I say we have something up our sleeve that OC advocates will like -- now that we have produced a legislative environment where I believe it is achievable -- it is called a "threat." Yep, it's a threat all right. A threat to fight for the rights of gun owners.

With respect to your suggestion, I have done nothing BUT "answer the question," ad infinitim. I have said that neither GRNC nor GRNC-PVF gives money to candidates and, using "cooked" evidence, been called a liar. I have explained why we adopted the legislative agenda we have, accomplishing what could be accomplished without needlessly sacrificing friendly legislators, for which I was called indifferent (or worse) to the cause of open carry. I have been heckled, yet when I return in kind with factual arguments, they are branded "condescending." And in the end, I am the single and only person in this disussion who has the guts and honesty to identify myself.

You seem very nice, but I do have a question: You know wabbit. Fantastic. Known him for decades. OK. Maybe he's a great guy (or she's a great gal). But your address shows Fairfax, VA. Do you know him/her there? Because, as I'm sure we can all agree, Fairfax is lovely country, but it isn't in North Carolina. In fact, Fairfax is the home of the headquarters of the NRA.

So here is my question: Do either you or wabbit work, on either paid or volunteer basis, for the NRA? If not, who are you, and who is wabbit?

As the saying goes, "Just askin'..."

Paul

I am a proud military retiree who worked with ncwabbit while in the military; we've remained in touch. He and my husband, in fact, claim friendship significantly longer than ncwabbit and I. If you must know, our respective post-military careers have taken us on different paths; I'm sorry you have a hard time realizing friendship can transcend state lines. AND I pointed out to you the reason I follow the NC forum and GRNC is that I travel there several times a year. Part of the reason I've not joined GRNC is much as ncwabbit implies - your books are not public.

I neither work for nor particularly like the NRA, though I am a life member and think highly of its education capabilities. The reality is our nation is that if you want to teach, compete, or in many states obtain a concealed-carry permit, the NRA must be a part of your life. Fairfax County is lovely, and it is the home of the NRA headquarters -- neither fact has any bearing on this conversation. But if you wish to badmouth the NRA by accusing everyone of being an NRA plant, so be it.

And I do congratulate you on toning down the condescension some.

 

[ncwabbit]

Milady, what a very pleasant surprise and truly excellent to see your smile...Gentle greetings!!

Truly Paul, you seem to be expressing just a smidge of paranoid affect :shocker:

Paul, I am becoming worried about your mental health status since your projections about mysterious ppl (in high places too) conspiring against you and your precious GRNC as being NRA inspired, daunts even the John, Martin, and Jimmy conspiracy theories. (Query: do you every experience paracusia?) Though truly not sure to be pleased to be mentioned or associated with such august company of your real or imagined provocateur(s) you listed.

So Paul, enough about your health, as I am not sure where you honestly believe i ever have called you a liar, directly or indirectly: i made a comment... you responded w/a threat of litigation..., i showed my evidence, and your rant ensused about this NRA conspiracy began. facts be known, i do not know when i have ever used the word liar in a conversation or out here...such a harsh word!!

Anyway, Paul...any apology forth coming for your insensitive comments about OC’s membership and GRNC's organizational lack of support for open carrying NC citizens?

wabbit

PS: really tess...I'm a ROYAL PITA...truly?

 

[frogfish]

Honest question here... what can we do to try and get carry legalized in restaurants and movie theaters here in NC

 

[WalkingWolf]

Honest question here... what can we do to try and get carry legalized in restaurants and movie theaters here in NC

Write you representative, and make you feelings clear. Give business to the restaurants that do not serve, and if given the chance let alcohol serving business know they are losing business due to dumb laws. The restaurant businesses probably have the most influence on a law that concerns them. Some of the Mexican restaurants do not have liquor license because they do not want the hassle. I can usually find a good restaurant that is dry by asking around. There used to be a very good one in Pittsboro, but he sold the restaurant, and then reopened another but it is not dry now.

We usually go to the IHOP, it is OK, though not fancy.

 

[Tess]

Honest question here... what can we do to try and get carry legalized in restaurants and movie theaters here in NC

First, decide if you want one bill or two. I might suggest that restaurant carry be separate from theaters, and that you consider whether you want just theaters, or all places that charge admission, which covers theaters under NC law.

Draft the bill, or make certain you have someone who can. That someone MIGHT be the legislator you contact, but you can't rely on that. You'll have better luck if you get it drafted correctly from the beginning.

Now the tough part. Find a legislator who will submit, support, and advocate for it. It will be up to NC residents to let all their legislators know they support such legislation, but you have to get it introduced first. You want someone strong on gun rights, well-respected, ideally with enough seniority and respect in the capitol that he can influence others to agree. You don't want someone with a reputation for introducing legislation that goes nowhere, no matter how good he is on guns.

Then get other legislators to agree. You'll probably have to work a committee chairman or three to get it heard, and enough legislators to get it passed in both chambers. And will the governor sign it? If not, you'll need to have a veto-proof majority.

It's not easy, and each of these steps is a lot of work, but that's the process.

 

[Doble Troble]

Condescension for me, not for thee...

So wabbit, what is your relationship with NRA?

 

[WalkingWolf]

So wabbit, what is your relationship with NRA?

What is your relationship with Paul? Are you a CC instructor? Permit holder?

 

[Doble Troble]

Gratitude

I'm grateful to Paul and the other GRNC volunteers for devoting so much time and effort. NC is a good state in-terms of gun rights and GRNC deserves credit and thanks.

I really don't understand why you guys are anti-permit and anti-GRNC. It makes no sense. Political change is step-wise, and the antis - particularly within the larger municipalities, are still active. We need to stick together.

I have a carry permit, but I usually open carry.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I'm grateful to Paul and the other GRNC volunteers for devoting so much time and effort. NC is a good state in-terms of gun rights and GRNC deserves credit and thanks.

I really don't understand why you guys are anti-permit and anti-GRNC. It makes no sense. Political change is step-wise, and the antis - particularly within the larger municipalities, are still active. We need to stick together.

I have a carry permit, but I usually open carry.

Because a permit is not the second amendment, GRNC is actually trying to infringe on my rights. What is your relationship to Paul, and are you a CC instructor?

 

[Doble Troble]

GRNC infringing on your rights?

No, it is the Feds and NCGA that are responsible for the remaining "Gun-Free Zones" in NC. What's NRA done to help w/the Feds lately? They opposed Heller and only joined McDonald when it became inevitable.

GRNC volunteers are working hard here at home to remove restrictions for ALL gun owners - open and concealed. Concealed is obviously an easier "sell". You must walk before you run, which is why guys like you never get anywhere.

Enjoy the freedom that GRNC has helped make available to you. Go thank your NRA buddies for nothing for me.

 

[WalkingWolf]

No, it is the Feds and NCGA that are responsible for the remaining "Gun-Free Zones" in NC. What's NRA done to help w/the Feds lately? They opposed Heller and only joined McDonald when it became inevitable.

GRNC volunteers are working hard here at home to remove restrictions for ALL gun owners - open and concealed. Concealed is obviously an easier "sell". You must walk before you run, which is why guys like you never get anywhere.

Enjoy the freedom that GRNC has helped make available to you. Go thank your NRA buddies for nothing for me.

GRNC has done nothing for my freedom, NOTHING. The freedoms we enjoy are brought by the NC Constitution, and the NC Supreme court. Paul has admitted that he does not represent OC, and he has done nothing for NC.

 

[Doble Troble]

GRNC Accomplishments

In addition to "Shall Issue" concealed carry, GRNC played a key role in drafting and passing Castle Doctrine. Also Bateman v Perdue eliminated State of Emergency gun bans AND set precedent for 2A right to bear arms outside of the home. These are just recent wins, and don't forget GRNC's defensive role in blocking gun-grabber bills that come up like whack-a-mole.

No organization is perfect, but GRNC is at least very good. Claiming they've never made progress outside of concealed carry just isn't accurate. Your unwillingness to acknowledge clear contributions on behalf of all gun owners is puzzling, as is the associated vitriol. It's as if the mere existence of GRNC bothers you. If you don't want to volunteer, fine. But how about toning-down the attacks?

 

[WalkingWolf]

In addition to "Shall Issue" concealed carry, GRNC played a key role in drafting and passing Castle Doctrine. Also Bateman v Perdue eliminated State of Emergency gun bans AND set precedent for 2A right to bear arms outside of the home. These are just recent wins, and don't forget GRNC's defensive role in blocking gun-grabber bills that come up like whack-a-mole.

No organization is perfect, but GRNC is at least very good. Claiming they've never made progress outside of concealed carry just isn't accurate. Your unwillingness to acknowledge clear contributions on behalf of all gun owners is puzzling, as is the associated vitriol. It's as if the mere existence of GRNC bothers you. If you don't want to volunteer, fine. But how about toning-down the attacks?

We always had a right to self defense, by common law and SCOTUS. Castle doctrine was brought to us by a lady in FL, and the NRA. Paul has yet to do anything for Open Carry~NOTHING! That is not a attack but the truth, maybe you should talk to your buddy about toning down the attacks, and vitriol. I don't care about GRNC if they exist or not, but I am not giving my support to a person or organization that does not support me. Get over it, because you are not gaining any ground here. Tone down your own attacks, propaganda and untruths.

I ask again, are you a CC instructor? I assume yes since you will not answer.

 

[ncwabbit]

So wabbit, what is your relationship with NRA?

why on earth is that germane Doble? but lets put this into context with this site: http://www.nrahq.org/history.asp
do you realize the amount of training the NRA 'volunteers' do for the public in the shooting sports arena and that is not counting the Law enforcement training courses or within the hunting communities ACROSS the nation?

the NRA's firearm training activities are the corner stone for a myriad of states concealed firearms, Law Enforcement, and hunter certification programs. For example, for you to become a CHP instructor in the state of NC, you must provide IAW 12NCAC 09F.0104, 0105, and 0107 'firearms instructor certification, in one of the following courses: NRA Basic Pistol...(lets see the NRA website states you can not become an instructor unless you hold the basic course - 8 hours and the instructor portion is according to their website 9 hours after their 4 hour Basic Training course for a total of 21 hours worth of instruction)

as for the other items you mention Doble...where GRNC has 'passed' laws? Truly, do you honestly believe this non-profit organization PASSED LAWS? How did you miss that part of the discussion and Paul's responses? Regarding the State of Emergency lawsuit which was filed by the Second Amendment Foundation and as GRNC's own media releases "GRNC Joined after it was initially filed"...

Finally your statement about GRNC representing ALL NC gun owners or citizens Paul has specifically stated his only interest for his organization is concealed carry citizens as they are quote GRNC is promoting the image of North Carolina concealed handgun permit-holders -- certified sane, sober and law abiding... unquote.

you yourself state you open carry and as such fall outside the the GRNC's scope of caring for your gun rights as you are not certified sane, sober and law abiding!!

wabbit

PS: doble...who are GRNC's directors, what is its agenda, and where is the money you provide the GRNC going? do you know the answers to any of those questions...interesting to note the NRA's information is public record. As you have stated no organization is perfect...but at least NRA is out in the open about the things GRNC hides in the closet about.

pps: what freedoms have we gotten...oh wait...the Class 3 statuate GRNC worked so hard this summer to get passed!!

 

[Doble Troble]

Castle doctrine was brought to us by a lady in FL, and the NRA.

What part(s) of the Castle Doctrine bill did NRA and/or the lady in FL draft? I'll take the liberty of answering for you: NONE. It was all done by GRNC volunteers.

I ask again, are you a CC instructor? I assume yes since you will not answer.

I am not a CC instructor. What if I were? Do you have an axe to grind for them as well as GRNC?

 

[WalkingWolf]

What part(s) of the Castle Doctrine bill did NRA and/or the lady in FL draft? I'll take the liberty of answering for you: NONE. It was all done by GRNC volunteers.



I am not a CC instructor. What if I were? Do you have an axe to grind for them as well as GRNC?

Castle doctrine is nothing more than a security blanket. a overzealous prosecutor will still charge as long as a judge will accept the affidavit. There always has been the right to self defense in and out of the home. Such as the subway vigilante that was found not guilty in liberal NYC, several cases in Illinois, and one within the last few years where the self defense shooter illegally had a concealed firearm in his car. Self defense is not only solid common law, it is supported by SCOTUS. The impotence of the Castle Doctrine is evidenced by George Zimmerman. A person either is justified in self defense or they are not. And that is clearly written in the Castle Doctrine laws. The lady in Fl who was responsible for the fl law, was the driving force for current laws in other states. And NRA, though I am not there fan, have been credited by gun people, and news media for the laws including in this state. GRNC, and Paul are not magic gods, and if they were they sure have carped on the OC community.

Let me make this clear, Castle Law was wasted effort as it changed NOTHING! Paul should have been working on bringing more liberty to ALL NC gun owners, if in fact he had any part in the Castle Law. I can guarantee if you shoot a minority fleeing unarmed from your home carrying a TV you have a good chance of going to Jail. Or in say California a person shoots a man in public charging him with a knife, he probably will not go to jail. The only place where Castle Doctrine would have made a difference is vehicle carry, BUT we already had vehicle carry.

The blunt fact of the matter is GRNC has done nothing for open carry, yet he demands, let me repeat that he demands our support. And now you come in behind him echoing the same dogma.

If Paul or you want more support EARN IT!

 

[Doble Troble]

Castle Doctrine is a clear win for all NC gun owners

Someone reading your last post, wolf, may think that Castle Doctrine isn't an epic win for gun owners. It was. I think Sean Sorrentino's blog post will help disabuse others of any uncertainty.

http://www.ncgunblog.com/2011/07/01/castle-doctrine-gets-fantastic-treatment-on-tv-video/

 

[WalkingWolf]

Someone reading your last post, wolf, may think that Castle Doctrine isn't an epic win for gun owners. It was. I think Sean Sorrentino's blog post will help disabuse others of any uncertainty.

http://www.ncgunblog.com/2011/07/01/castle-doctrine-gets-fantastic-treatment-on-tv-video/

Castle doctrine did not give people the right to self defense, or allow gun owners to shoot illegally. See George Zimmerman.

The right to self defense already existed, we always had the right to it. What exactly right do you think Castle Doctrine has given in NC that was not already there?

 

[Doble Troble]

Laws don't confer rights, wolf

The right to self defense already existed, we always had the right to it. What exactly right do you think Castle Doctrine has given in NC that was not already there?

Take a minute to watch the video on Sean's blog. It will explain the advantages of Castle Doctrine for ALL gun owners, not just those with permits.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Take a minute to watch the video on Sean's blog. It will explain the advantages of Castle Doctrine for ALL gun owners, not just those with permits.

Let me repeat, the right to self defense already existed before castle laws, and castle laws mean jack if you are not in any danger. That is clear in the Castle laws. You cannot just shoot somebody and throw out your castle law card. And the right to self defense is ingrained in common law and court case law. Castle law is a security blanket that will not make you secure if you screw up. If you don't screw up, it is not even relevant.

This has been pointed out about George Zimmerman, that it is not a stand your ground case because he could not stand his ground, or flee. He was trapped on his back. It is a self defense case, and he IS STILL ON TRIAL.

Castle Laws will cause much grief to those without common sense.

In the shooting case in Mt Vernon Ill of Lashawn Wilkes shooting an unarmed Clayton Holmes Wilkes was found not guilty. Even though Wilkes admitted to shooting Holmes. The shooter was never in question and the defense was self defense even though Holmes was unarmed. And this was in a state with NO concealed, or open carry law, and NO Castle or stand your ground law. The laws in every state support self defense including deadly force.