Got the cops called on me...again

[bayboy42]

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Looks good to me. GLad to see that link was able to help you pull some words together. Please keep us posted on their response.

 

[357luvr]

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Well I got a call from the local PD today. It was officer Murphy, one of the cops who was there. I believe he was the officer who stayed in the car most of the time. First off he said that he couldn't release any information because it is an ongoing investigation. I asked about the regulations pertaining to handcuffing someone on their own private property and he told me that the case of Terry vs. Ohio allowed them to temporarily detain someone if they are suspected of commiting a crime.

Here's the story that he gave me. He said that they were looking for a person (they didn't know if he was black or white at the time) who used a black semi automatic handgun in a violent armed robbery. I of course walk outside wearing a Glock 27 on my ankle and they see it and put me into handcuffs. They then call their informant and ask if the guy they're looking for is black or white, they said black. They then released me. He also said that they found out that the "nate" sometimes lives next door. He said the reason that they were sent here was because the officer who arrested me before said that the people who got me arrested before once called me nate (for a reason unknown to me) and they came here first.

Now if they had known that they were looking for a black guy from the beginning and still put me in handcuffs, I would've had a problem with what they did. But they "say" that they didn't know until shortly before they released me. Basically, I've decided not to file a complaint. If they stick to the story that they didn't know that they were looking for a black guy from the beginning (which I'm sure they will) then filing a complaint won't do any good.

On a good note, Officer Murphy complimented me on aVERY good guard dog!!! LMAO We also talked about guns for a little bit which is always nice. He also said that after meeting my next door neighbors, I should definitely keep my guns!

Anyway, like I said, I'm not going to file a complaint. Hopefully nothing like this will come up again. But most likely it will. At the very least, I've shown them that I'm not going to be pushed around and that Iknow the law. Thanks for all your advice on this everyone.

 

[Anubis]

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357luvr wrote:

...I'm not going to file a complaint...

Probably the correct course of action at this point.

 

[Pwning the Papacy]

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I do not enjoy seeing all of this 'do not resist' and 'whisper your complaints as to not agitate the cops'.

The government apparently does not remind them that citizens have rights, and that they are supposed to be FIRST protecting rights over all things. If the government is unwilling, and the government is made from the people, well, damn, I guess it is also up to you to remind them.

Some case law even says that if you do not 'reasonably resist', where reasonably is actually held to an elevated standard (simply expressing in words has apparently been held not to be enough in certain situations) that it shall not be considered resistance, for, say, a search.

Let me go cite some cases for you that will hopefully remind you that tolerance and subordination is in no way your best interest. Cops are servants to YOU as part of the public.

I know how touchy a subject this is going to be, but in certain extremes, you may have to be willing to 'go down shooting' and take one for the team. (Not this situation as it erupted, necessarily.) Why? If you are not willing to sacrifice your life for your rights, you will clearly be seen as revereing life as more important, government may and will consider letting you live as sufficient reason to usurp all of your rights. You know: "how the community feels about offensiveness", "family values", all this ubersubjective hogwash intertwined into our books...

Anubis wrote:

357luvr wrote:

...I'm not going to file a complaint...

Probably the correct course of action at this point.

All because some cop sweet-talked you?

 

[357luvr]

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Pwning the Papacy wrote:

Anubis wrote:

357luvr wrote:

...I'm not going to file a complaint...

Probably the correct course of action at this point.

All because some cop sweet-talked you?

I'm not going to file a complaint because it won't do any good. The officer who called me already told me that they were following the letter of the law. If that's the way they feel, they won't give officer Tidman even so much as a slap on the wrist. If anything, he'll probably be told that he did a good job and to keep it up. I'll admit, I'm not pleased about my decision. But I really don't think that it would do any good to file a complaint. There's a SMALL chance that it would tell the police that I won't be pushed around and that I know the law, but I think I've already proven that.

Now that I've calmed down a bit and talked to one of the cops that were actually there, I'm able to look at it from their point of view. They didn't know what race the guy they were looking for was, they knew that at some point a neighbor thought I went by nate, about the only thing they did know was that the person who had commited the crime was a violent person and that he used a black semi auto in commision of the crime. I can't honestly say that if I was in the same situation, I wouldn't have done the same thing.

True, it's obvious from my previous interaction with law enforcement that I'm not a violent person. Hell, when I was arrested before, the cop that arrested me allowed me to keep my hands in front of me. I cooperated fully with them both at that time and this time and I have a CHP which proves that I don't have a violent past. But still, when a cop sees a gun, they get nervous. Especially in the situation like they were in looking for a violent criminal and everything.

The fact that they didn't know what race the person they were looking for was changes everything. I thought they knew from the get go that they were looking for a black guy but they say they didn't. I think that would have come up in the interrogation of the informant but maybe it didn't. Either way, looking at it from their point of view, with their side of the story in mind, I can't honestly say I wouldn't have done the same thing. Me personally, I would have asked the informant what race they/I was looking for but I don't know, maybe it didn't come up.

 

[longwatch]

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357luvr I think you are doing the right thing, but it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. Its your incident and if you are satisfied thats good enough. If somebody else wants to martyr themselves and go down in a blaze of glory, well thats their choice. I'm curious as to whether or not the police responded adequately to your request for information/FOIA, that might be worth following up on just for informational purposes.

 

[357luvr]

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They said that they couldn't release any information because it was an ongoing investigation. However, when I checked my other email a while ago, there was a copy of the dispatch records. Unfourtunately, it's priveldged attorny-client information and I can't post it on here. But there wasn't much information anyway, just a list of suspects including me and this nate and the times that everything happened. Like I said, I can't divulge any more information because it's privledged information. I am satisfied with what I've gotten and don't see any need to go on to file the complaint. Again, thanks for all your advice on this.

 

[VAopencarry]

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357, Do what you gotta do, or not do. I think you made your point already.

 

[exceltoexcel]

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Can't wait until your next LEO encounter, seems like you keep them edumacated.

 

[Pwning the Papacy]

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So, the a) cops didn't come WITH answers
and you're willing to give them a break and 'see it from their POV' because they were
more interested in careless apprehension than your rights
and you b) did not act in any manner to appear violent toward the police
which occured c) on your own property
wherefore d) you were served no warrant


so e) your apparently visible arms were confiscated without your consent
and f) you were handcuffed without being arrested with charges.


All of this is made possible by g) your belief that mere suspicion is more than enough to cancel the effect of any rights you have.



UGH.

 

[357luvr]

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Pwning the Papacy wrote:

So, the a) cops didn't come WITH answers
and you're willing to give them a break and 'see it from their POV' because they were
more interested in careless apprehension than your rights
and you b) did not act in any manner to appear violent toward the police
which occured c) on your own property
wherefore d) you were served no warrant


so e) your apparently visible arms were confiscated without your consent
and f) you were handcuffed without being arrested with charges.


All of this is made possible by g) your belief that mere suspicion is more than enough to cancel the effect of any rights you have.



UGH.

Trust me, the next LEO encounter I have won't go like this. From now on, I don't even plan on stepping outside for them to see that I'm armed. If they ask me to step outside, I'll ask 'for What!?!' Basically, I don't intend on being rude to them but they have no reason what so ever to come on to my property so I intend to let them know right off the bat that I don't want them here unless they have a warrant. If they come with a warrant, I'll comply fully but until then, they're going to get one or two word answers from me from inside my house! Either way, I'm confident that filing a complaint at this point won't do any good. So I'm not going to file one. This has been a good experience for me because I'm certain that I'll never treat a LEO the same way again. Even though I didn't get what I originally thought I wanted (for the officer Tidman to end up neck deep in s!&t) I did get something out of this which is intelligence and experience. That will serve me better than officer Tidman getting into trouble ever could.

later y'all

 

[Pwning the Papacy]

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Apparent deference and protection of your rights can go hand in hand. Just so you know, I'm not recommending that you show contempt (although, for tresspassers, I'm not sure why you shouldn't show contempt). You can assert your rights and protect every one of them, but you can pull it off by playing the officers with what appears to be 'respect'.

I personally don't know how some humans are so retarded, exacerbated by power, that they become schmucks just because they didn't receive whatever appears to be 'respect' to them, but...
If you can retain all your rights and conveniently play the game...that's what I'm suggesting. And don't forget to call the cops or shoot, if the tresspassers remain on your property without authority or consent...remember, they also are armed and should be considered the same threat level as you were treated!

 

[DeadCenter]

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357, Heard this AM that "Nate" got himself arrested. Orange county Sheriff's Department picked him up. Guess they won't be looking for him at your place anymore.



DeadCenter

 

[Bloencustoms]

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It seems to me that if they have to knock, you don't have to answer the door. If they have a warrant, they will break your door down if you don't answer it. I'd just let them stew on the porch until they go away, or come back with a warrant. In the meantime, you can call the police department, say who you are, and ask why you have two cops on the porch. I'm not sure about it, but I don't think you have to open the door for anyone without a warrant. I know I won't if it ever happens to me. Only time police are going to be in my house is if I call them to come over.

 

[possumboy]

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I had a friend in Maryland tell two Montgomery County Police officers they were more than welcome in his house, but they would have to leave thier guns in the car. "I have children in here you know."

The officers did not enter his house, and he did not step outside to talk to them. All of this was done from a window beside the door.

 

[357luvr]

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So "Nate" finally got caught huh? GOOD!!!That's a good idea, invite them in only if they take their guns off. Seeing as how I've told the cops that I'm always armed, I don't think they'll take me up on that offer!:lol: