Grand Valley State University

[scot623]

Institutions of higher education are not covered by 750.237a

(b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

(c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

(d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.

I believe you are only violating the student rules. If not a student, does not apply. The IHE has recourse against a student; the rest of us could be trespassed if they refused to leave.

They are covered by 28.425o as I posted earlier.

 

[Tucker6900]

Yes but if a federal law is involved you need not violate the law ... you can file w/o breaking the law (most states require you to break the law).

Going after the state law via 2nd amend is a federal law issue; one that can be addressed w/o the need to break the law.

The only federal law that matters is 2A. All others are null and void.

 

[griffin]

I believe you are only violating the student rules.

No. MCL 28.425o covers most college and university buildings (for CC). And besides, the OP is a student and doesn't want to get kicked out in his last semester I don't think.

 

[Raggs]

No. MCL 28.425o covers most college and university buildings (for CC). And besides, the OP is a student and doesn't want to get kicked out in his last semester I don't think.

Yes, I would much rather graduate, diploma in hand.

 

[DrTodd]

The issue here is whether colleges and universities have the right to ban firearms from their premises in a manner more strict than state law. As it stands right now, some apparently think they do. If this has been tested in regards to firearms, I am not aware of any cases. Universities have, though, been told by the courts that they do need to follow some state laws. For example, state laws concerning fire safety regulations and building permits have been found to preempt the ability of colleges and universities to make their own rules. So in my mind, the issue is unknown.

However, this belief that colleges and universities can make their own rules regarding the carry of firearms stands in direct opposition to MCL 28.427(2) which states:

"Subject to section 5o and except as otherwise provided by law, a license to carry a concealed pistol issued by the county concealed weapon licensing board authorizes the licensee to do all of the following:

(a) Carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person anywhere in this state.

(b) Carry a pistol in a vehicle, whether concealed or not concealed, anywhere in this state.
"

This is just my opinion, but would I carry on a college campus if I were a student of that school? No, because as a student I have agreed to abide by their rules.

If I am not a student, the issue in MY OPINION is to what degree I have entered into a "contract" with the school. If I am walking across Grand Valley's campus to go to Burger King, the idea of me having a contractual obligation to abide by their rules is pretty thin. If I'm going there to use the library for my research, my use of their building has engendered some sort of contract, albeit one more minor than that of a student.
Therefore, the question I think that needs to be asked is to what degree is my use predicated on my knowing their rules? Also, and perhaps more importantly, am I willing to suffer the consequences of carrying my firearm on the campus?

 

[TheQ]

Institutions of higher education are not covered by 750.237a

(b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

(c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

(d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.

I believe you are only violating the student rules. If not a student, does not apply. The IHE has recourse against a student; the rest of us could be trespassed if they refused to leave.

State universities have police forces that have full police powers. These universities also have ordinances that are enforced by their police powers and turned over to the county prosecutor for prosecution. Universities are not covered under preemption.

 

[Venator]

State universities have police forces that have full police powers. These universities also have ordinances that are enforced by their police powers and turned over to the county prosecutor for prosecution. Universities are not covered under preemption.

I was discussing an issue similar to Dr. Todd's argument with a federal agent that mentioned a case in Colorado that argued this very point. That is a state issued CPL allows you to carry anywhere in the state EXCEPT those places listed by the state. The argument is that the state license allows you to carry anywhere, except the PFZ.

The argument is could a college invalidate a drivers license? A contractors license, etc... In Colorado the courts agreed and guns are now allowed on campus. It is a valid legal argument.

Plus the Federal and State Constitutions and you have a case. Of course the legislature could just add them to the preemption statute.

 

[TheQ]

I was discussing an issue similar to Dr. Todd's argument with a federal agent that mentioned a case in Colorado that argued this very point. That is a state issued CPL allows you to carry anywhere in the state EXCEPT those places listed by the state. The argument is that the state license allows you to carry anywhere, except the PFZ.

The argument is could a college invalidate a drivers license? A contractors license, etc... In Colorado the courts agreed and guns are now allowed on campus. It is a valid legal argument.

Plus the Federal and State Constitutions and you have a case. Of course the legislature could just add them to the preemption statute.

I will happily watch for a test case…

 

[Ezerharden]

Advocacy of illegal acts in this thread have been reported. Let's hope the mods do the right thing.

Hasn't happened in prior threads, why should this one be any different?

OT: i was always under the assumption that State Universities were preempted but private ones were not.

 

[TheQ]

I was discussing an issue similar to Dr. Todd's argument with a federal agent that mentioned a case in Colorado that argued this very point. That is a state issued CPL allows you to carry anywhere in the state EXCEPT those places listed by the state. The argument is that the state license allows you to carry anywhere, except the PFZ.

The argument is could a college invalidate a drivers license? A contractors license, etc... In Colorado the courts agreed and guns are now allowed on campus. It is a valid legal argument.

Plus the Federal and State Constitutions and you have a case. Of course the legislature could just add them to the preemption statute.

Let's evaluate this counter argument. The State gives you a driver's license -- a permit to drive on public roads. Cannot a city say: this road is a service road only for use by authorized persons, persons found driving on this road will be fined/jailed?

Just food for thought.

 

[griffin]

Let's evaluate this counter argument. The State gives you a driver's license -- a permit to drive on public roads. Cannot a city say: this road is a service road only for use by authorized persons, persons found driving on this road will be fined/jailed?

I don't know. Not that I know of. The state can. Not sure localities can. And even if they can, a limited access road is not equivalent to a public university where all are welcome and even encouraged to visit and spend time at.

 

[TheQ]

I don't know. Not that I know of. The state can. Not sure localities can. And even if they can, a limited access road is not equivalent to a public university where all are welcome and even encouraged to visit and spend time at.

I know you have your own MSU thing going on. At least we know you have the resources to take care of matters.

 

[Venator]

Let's evaluate this counter argument. The State gives you a driver's license -- a permit to drive on public roads. Cannot a city say: this road is a service road only for use by authorized persons, persons found driving on this road will be fined/jailed?

Just food for thought.

I doubt it.