imported post
Sgt_Habz wrote:
certainly have been...
Ron Paul,
Yes, I really like Ron Paul a lot and would have voted for him had I thought he had a chance. The more he speaks, the more I like him. Unfortunately, most people either don't like him or don't think he'll win so won't vote for him. Obama is still a good second choice though, despite some downsides thus far. He may very well turn out to be the next Carter though, so who knows.
The conservatives were quick to jump on Obama about the bailouts but fail to see through their filtered vision that Bush initiated them with AIG. Bailouts: bad idea from both sides. Death panels: if I even have to address this issue then people aren't even doing a modicum of homework.
Sorry to those detractors but the Republican party has resorted to controlling it's membership through fear. You better fear this, you better fear that. I refuse to be a sheep. If they want my vote they have to actually adhere to conservative principals.
Nutzcak: You zeroed in pretty good on the one line you apparently feel takes away from the whole message. I don't know you so I don't want to mis-characterize you in any way, but my reading of your last sentence is that you find yourself incapable of even typing Obama's name. I genuinely don't want to offend or get into a pissing match with your supporters, but if I may say that seems a bit not as mature as I would hope for. I like discourse with people who disagree with me as long as it's civil. I just don't know how to respond to this.
Hugh: I was expecting my biggest detractor to be you but I had hoped for a better argument. You usually have pretty well laid out points going from a to z. I also don't contradict myself in any way. But at the same time I don't want to write the equivalent of a novel to explain every dimension of what I'm saying.
I don't
think I said anything about voting on principle, in fact I believe quite the opposite. Or maybe our perspectives are different on what principle means. What I don't do, because I'm generally conservative, is to vote Republican because "Hey, I'm Republican".
Basically, let me give you the voting mechanism in a nutshell from my point of view. The Dems have a solid base of supporters who they know will vote for them no matter what kind of crappy product they have. The same holds true for the Republicans. They can be as crooked and off kilter as they choose but they know who will vote for them, right down to individual neighborhoods. Those voters hold no sway in their parties. They've bought their lifetime ticket. Thus, there is little incentive on those parties to appease their constitutients.
Then there is the rest of us who vote with our political pocketbooks. If our politicians don't do as we expect, there is a real chance we will go elsewhere. That's not to say one party is good and one party is bad. Hell, most of the time, both parties outright suck, for lack of a better term.
Is this system perfect? Hell no. Is there some other way I have as a voter of swaying a parties activities? Not that I'm aware unless I'm part of the leadership. So I would argue that the swing voter's are the only ones with a say (albeit still small). The hardcores on both sides are voiceless.
More specifically, my biggest issue with the conservative party (other than the Patriot Act) is they claim to be fiscally conservative. Not even close. The truth is when Dems are in charge, they spend roughly the same as when Republicans are in charge (I'm speaking at the national level). The difference is what the money tends to be spent on and under Republicans taxes are usually actually lower than under the Dems. However, if your spending the same and taxing lower, that leads to of course, higher deficits. If you had to pick a single issue which will lead to the collapse of the country, short of war it would have to be uncontrolled debt.
I didn't really follow your third line so I'll pass on commenting. I felt your last line was the equivalent of a
middle finger salute, which is your right, but didn't actually address an issue so I'll pass on that as well.
Civil coherent discourse I'll gladly respond to, but since this is an open carry forum, which we all agree on, we should probably stick to that.
Peace-