Prophet
Regular Member
imported post
To cut to the chase I went to a Giant Eagle today on Centre Ave. (for those of you who know where that is) and as I am walking in the store with my cart a Pittsburgh LEO calls me over and tells me to cover up my firearm. In order to get my shopping going along I acquiesced and covered it...small shirt so it didn't work too well but whatever. Then the security guard next to him said that my Permit REQUIRED me to carry concealed. To that I said that my permit didn't say CONCEALED anywhere on it. Foolishly I produced my permit to show him it indeed did not say concealed anywhere. The LEO...Sgt. Hlavik took my permit and starting writing down my information. It just hit me that I forfeiting some 4th Amendment rights in trying to prove the point.
That sort of bothers me but i figured it was a lesson learned. He then asked for my phone number. Since he copied information for no reason and was keeping me for no reason I wasn't about to forfeit up more of my 4th amendment rights and give him a phone number without at least him telling me why. So I simply and politely asked him "why do you need my phone number?"
At this point he becomes more aggressive towards me and tells me if i continue to give him lip that he will take my permit to the sherrifs department tomorrow and have it revoked. I told him that all I asked was why he needed my phone number and that he had no right to take my permit since I didn't do anything illegal.
At that point he pretty much loses it and kicks me out of Giant Eagle. I ask to speak to the manager or someone who works at giant eagle and he tells me that he a City police officer and that I must leave and am no longer welcome to return. I asked for his business card, he said no. I asked him for his name, he refused to give it but told me his badge number and said that was all that was required for him to give me. I asked for his pen so i could right it down, he said no. I took the time to read his name tag.
I immediately go to the nearest police station and ask if Sgt Hlavic works there. They said no but directed me to the station that he does. I drive across town and find out he doesn't work until 11 and I got the name of his Lt. So i burn a couple of hours...about 4 and then return. I speak to the Lt., told him what happend and requested my permit back. The Lt. was a nice enough fellow and explained the dangers of open carrying, not he criminal aspect but the "some rookie cop may draw down on you" perspective. Sgt. Hlavic was there as well and continue to be argumentative with me with regards to Open carrying being illegal. Showed my the state law that says that a permit is needed to carry concealed or in a car. He is under the impression that having the permit FORCES me to carry concealed. I tried to explain that it just gives me that option to which he kept saying I was being combative. I left it at that with my permit in hand. Though they did make a copy and I've no doubt that they will try to have my permit revoked.
I've no fear in losing it since the act of acting legally is not an act in which the act of revoking is called to be acted upon.
The worst part is that the Sgt kept saying how pro gun he is and that he believed that everyone should have a gun. Truth is I believe him and thats what makes it bad. I would prefer some anti gun zealot chastising me for carrying rather than a cop whose real beef with me was the fact that I was willing to stand up for my rights and was willing to tell him no and ask the question why.
I asked the Lt. if a LEO working for Giant Eagle counts as a warning against trespassing and he saidwhile they are technically paid by Giant Eagle while they work they must have the owner/manager tell me that I am not welcome to return before a trespass warning can be issued. With that being said I plan on writing a letter to the Manager of this giant eagle and complaining about the way I was treated and if he wanted my business the officer must be dealt with. 50/50 shot on what the manager will do...but hey, Sam's club has good deals if the manager of the Giant Eagle wants to side with the sheep.
To cut to the chase I went to a Giant Eagle today on Centre Ave. (for those of you who know where that is) and as I am walking in the store with my cart a Pittsburgh LEO calls me over and tells me to cover up my firearm. In order to get my shopping going along I acquiesced and covered it...small shirt so it didn't work too well but whatever. Then the security guard next to him said that my Permit REQUIRED me to carry concealed. To that I said that my permit didn't say CONCEALED anywhere on it. Foolishly I produced my permit to show him it indeed did not say concealed anywhere. The LEO...Sgt. Hlavik took my permit and starting writing down my information. It just hit me that I forfeiting some 4th Amendment rights in trying to prove the point.
That sort of bothers me but i figured it was a lesson learned. He then asked for my phone number. Since he copied information for no reason and was keeping me for no reason I wasn't about to forfeit up more of my 4th amendment rights and give him a phone number without at least him telling me why. So I simply and politely asked him "why do you need my phone number?"
At this point he becomes more aggressive towards me and tells me if i continue to give him lip that he will take my permit to the sherrifs department tomorrow and have it revoked. I told him that all I asked was why he needed my phone number and that he had no right to take my permit since I didn't do anything illegal.
At that point he pretty much loses it and kicks me out of Giant Eagle. I ask to speak to the manager or someone who works at giant eagle and he tells me that he a City police officer and that I must leave and am no longer welcome to return. I asked for his business card, he said no. I asked him for his name, he refused to give it but told me his badge number and said that was all that was required for him to give me. I asked for his pen so i could right it down, he said no. I took the time to read his name tag.
I immediately go to the nearest police station and ask if Sgt Hlavic works there. They said no but directed me to the station that he does. I drive across town and find out he doesn't work until 11 and I got the name of his Lt. So i burn a couple of hours...about 4 and then return. I speak to the Lt., told him what happend and requested my permit back. The Lt. was a nice enough fellow and explained the dangers of open carrying, not he criminal aspect but the "some rookie cop may draw down on you" perspective. Sgt. Hlavic was there as well and continue to be argumentative with me with regards to Open carrying being illegal. Showed my the state law that says that a permit is needed to carry concealed or in a car. He is under the impression that having the permit FORCES me to carry concealed. I tried to explain that it just gives me that option to which he kept saying I was being combative. I left it at that with my permit in hand. Though they did make a copy and I've no doubt that they will try to have my permit revoked.
I've no fear in losing it since the act of acting legally is not an act in which the act of revoking is called to be acted upon.
The worst part is that the Sgt kept saying how pro gun he is and that he believed that everyone should have a gun. Truth is I believe him and thats what makes it bad. I would prefer some anti gun zealot chastising me for carrying rather than a cop whose real beef with me was the fact that I was willing to stand up for my rights and was willing to tell him no and ask the question why.
I asked the Lt. if a LEO working for Giant Eagle counts as a warning against trespassing and he saidwhile they are technically paid by Giant Eagle while they work they must have the owner/manager tell me that I am not welcome to return before a trespass warning can be issued. With that being said I plan on writing a letter to the Manager of this giant eagle and complaining about the way I was treated and if he wanted my business the officer must be dealt with. 50/50 shot on what the manager will do...but hey, Sam's club has good deals if the manager of the Giant Eagle wants to side with the sheep.