HB 1012 An order to retreat

[EMNofSeattle]

Pictoral translation

I'd like to get my hands on the email submitted to the State Patrol.
I'll think about drafting a letter to the editor. I'll make sure to submit it to you first John, that way I don't inadvertanly say something stupid.

 

[Trigger Dr]

Open comment for Rep Appleton

Sherry, Check in the mirror...Your nose is growing

 

[Alpine]

This is absurd, if the threats are real then they are actionable by WSP. If they aren't then there should be some kind of discipline for her making this up from some kind of ethics committee. Are there any statutes she is violating or any part of the MPC?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

This is absurd, if the threats are real then they are actionable by WSP. If they aren't then there should be some kind of discipline for her making this up from some kind of ethics committee. Are there any statutes she is violating or any part of the MPC?

There's no law that I know of against making false statements to the media. now if she gave someone's name and said something in a way that would hurt that person's reputation then that might be a problem. slander is RCW 9.58 but it only really applies if the lie is specific enough to hurt you, and has ill intent.

And making a false statement to a cop is only a crime if it's done knowlingly. (RCW 9A.76.175)

so really I see no law she's violated. now i'll admit i'm not familiar with the nature of case law regarding the offenses i mentioned. but from the plain language of the statutes, i personally don't see how she's violated a law.

as far as member ethics rules, I have absolutely no clue what that entails or what they are.

 

[Alpine]

Following the verdict of the Zimmerman trial tonight, the NAACP and anti-gun organizations have said they will push to hammer legislatures in every state to repeal all SYG laws or similar defense laws wherever they can.

Given that Appleton's entire basis for pushing this thing WAS the Zimmerman case, we should be on guard for this awful bill to resurrect come the next session.

 

[Difdi]

My problem with laws like this is they are way too vague. They leave so much up to interpretation that everyone is going to believe in a different standard. Then we make it up to the court to clarify, which means that someone is going to have to be the guinea pig whether they like it or not. I believe if I'm in my home I have nowhere to retreat to, someone else might say that I could run out the back door. I don't really want to have the courts or a jury decide.

RCW 9A.16.050 and 2011 c 336 s 354 are each amended to
5 read as follows:
6 (1) Homicide is also justifiable when committed (
7 (1))) in the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband,
8 wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his
9 or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to
10 apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to
do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such
12 person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished

17 (2) Homicide shall not be justifiable under this statute if the
p. 1 HB 1012 1 slayer knows or should know that he or she could avoid the necessity of
2 using such force with complete safety by retreating.

Two things spring to mind:

1 -- Does (2) negate (1)? If not, it's poorly written. If so, then the law would require you to abandon your relative to their fate if it was possible for you to safely retreat.

2 -- There is no exemption for within your own home. This means if your door is kicked in you MUST flee even if there are other people in the house, because there is no immediate threat to them.

 

[Difdi]

She kept arguing with me over and over how this bill is OK because Rep. Appleton is a "good person" who is trying to prevent killing and "supports gun rights too."

No law, no matter how it is written will stop a criminal from killing. They're not known for their great respect for laws, after all. What a law like this will do is prevent good people from acting in defense of themselves or others. It's not a popular idea to the Liberal mind, but sometimes someone just needs killing -- retreat is only an option for bad people in many situations.

 

[hermannr]

This is a question for a lawyer to answer, but our WA "stand your ground law" did not come from the legislature, it came from court decisions.

That said: would not this house bill automatically fail for this reason?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

This is a question for a lawyer to answer, but our WA "stand your ground law" did not come from the legislature, it came from court decisions.

That said: would not this house bill automatically fail for this reason?

But are the court decisions based on constitutional/common law grounds, or off of what the statutory law says?

that makes a difference...

 

[Difdi]

That said: would not this house bill automatically fail for this reason?

Statutes always override common law and case law derived from it. Constitutional law would be another story entirely.

 

[.45ACPaddy]

Duty to retreat... This just smells like a dump truck full of BS.

I can only see it being abused.

"So you shot the rapist instead of turning to the slightly cracked bedroom window and jumping out."

"Yes."

"You're guilty of murder."

Makes me sick.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Statutes always override common law and case law derived from it. Constitutional law would be another story entirely.

They are not supposed to though. Sadly statist legislatures, prosecutors and judges ignore this noble tradition.

 

[MSG Laigaie]

This was squashed last time because We, the People, barraged Appleton and her minion, Bezon, with letters, email, phone calls and visits. We can do this again. The People should make these decisions, not just a few, who think they know what is best for us.
Sherry Appleton (and your minion, Bezon)Listen to the People.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

This was squashed last time because We, the People, barraged Appleton and her minion, Bezon, with letters, email, phone calls and visits. We can do this again. The People should make these decisions, not just a few, who think they know what is best for us.
Sherry Appleton (and your minion, Bezon)Listen to the People.

There may be a committed group in the future that will holding these politicians accountable. I just attended the training for it put on by the Tennessee Center for Self Governance. Many of the beliefs of the group on what a republic means or the "social contract" I disagree with, but the training is awesome! And OC was no problem although it did mean I got used quite a bit by the instructor to make points......:lol: