unreconstructed1
Regular Member
imported post
nwsafety wrote:
nwsafety wrote:
wow, so when did the "innocent until proven guilty" ideaology get reversed?
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How would you react this encounter
- Thread starter WARCHILD
- Start date
nwsafety
New member
imported post
i am not from across the pond. I have lived both sides of the situations that are often discussed here. This is a topic as hot as religion or politics. There will always be the argument. Like i say, I am not against OC or CC. I have seen combat on and off duty. I personally choose to CC. I have taught my 5 year old daughter all about my pistol. The reason is, it will prevent curiosity later when she is playing at home alone. The chances of an at home accident is decreased. Yes it is locked up, but im a safety freak. I wont deter her from liking guns. In my opinion, the way this country is headed, i prefer for her to know how to use a gun as she grows. Will she own one? will she use one?Maybe. Chances are that someday the people who have and know how to protect themselves with a gun will be in better shape. I come from from the getto of L.A and San Jose in Calif, where i had worked. I live in peacefull NW Arkansas now. I have seen the changes here in the past 10 years and its all headed towards what i had left in Cal. If we were aloud to OC here, i still most likely wouldnt.
I own LEO and Fire-Rescue online web Buisnesses and rely on the fact that i am a proactive, responsible citizen in my community for the sake of my income, but even here in rural Arkansas which is full of transplants from East and West coasts, these folks are not prepared to see people walking down the street with guns, in return taking up police time for them to go and investigate Man w/Gun calls instead of preventing breakins, domestic issues, speeders or whatever.
i am not from across the pond. I have lived both sides of the situations that are often discussed here. This is a topic as hot as religion or politics. There will always be the argument. Like i say, I am not against OC or CC. I have seen combat on and off duty. I personally choose to CC. I have taught my 5 year old daughter all about my pistol. The reason is, it will prevent curiosity later when she is playing at home alone. The chances of an at home accident is decreased. Yes it is locked up, but im a safety freak. I wont deter her from liking guns. In my opinion, the way this country is headed, i prefer for her to know how to use a gun as she grows. Will she own one? will she use one?Maybe. Chances are that someday the people who have and know how to protect themselves with a gun will be in better shape. I come from from the getto of L.A and San Jose in Calif, where i had worked. I live in peacefull NW Arkansas now. I have seen the changes here in the past 10 years and its all headed towards what i had left in Cal. If we were aloud to OC here, i still most likely wouldnt.
I own LEO and Fire-Rescue online web Buisnesses and rely on the fact that i am a proactive, responsible citizen in my community for the sake of my income, but even here in rural Arkansas which is full of transplants from East and West coasts, these folks are not prepared to see people walking down the street with guns, in return taking up police time for them to go and investigate Man w/Gun calls instead of preventing breakins, domestic issues, speeders or whatever.
imperialism2024
Regular Member
imported post
So... anyone want to "educate"?
:?
So... anyone want to "educate"?
:?
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
imperialism2024 wrote:
It would be a very long, tedious conversation.
Essentially, you would have to undo numerous contra-rights ideas.
I've been through it before. I'm just not up to it anymore. At least not tonight.
I'll take the next one who has at least a solid grounding in the principles and history behind the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights--especially the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments,and personally agrees with at leasta majority of them, and can connect them to his job.
--Liberty is the compelling state interest.
imperialism2024 wrote:
It would be a very long, tedious conversation.
Essentially, you would have to undo numerous contra-rights ideas.
I've been through it before. I'm just not up to it anymore. At least not tonight.
I'll take the next one who has at least a solid grounding in the principles and history behind the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights--especially the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments,and personally agrees with at leasta majority of them, and can connect them to his job.
--Liberty is the compelling state interest.
WARCHILD
Regular Member
imported post
unreconstructed1 wrote:
unreconstructed1 wrote:
The Ideaology didn't get reversed; The expected practice did! For my whole adult life, I have seen more people spend their life savings to include re-mortgage their house to prove themselves innocent. With what recourse--- you can't sue city hall, so to speak.
unreconstructed1
Regular Member
imported post
WARCHILD wrote:
coming from a man who has been put in handcuffs more time for absolutely no reason than anyone I know, you are preaching to the choir here....
I believe the way it goes now is innocent until someone thinks otherwise....
WARCHILD wrote:
coming from a man who has been put in handcuffs more time for absolutely no reason than anyone I know, you are preaching to the choir here....
I believe the way it goes now is innocent until someone thinks otherwise....
imperialism2024
Regular Member
imported post
I'll take it.
To nwsafety:
1) Re: "Man with a gun" calls: There is a responsibility on the part of the 911 operator here, to get information from the caller about whether a crime is taking place. "Is the gun in the man's hand or in his holster? Holster? Is he committing any crime? No? I'm sorry sir, if the situation changes and the man with a gun attempts a crime, give a call back." If I call 911 and say "there's someone walking down the street with blue hair, send the cops!", I probably won't get a patrol car to investigate no matter how scared or uncomfortable I am. At any rate... if police resources are being wasted on open carriers, that is a failure of the 911 dispatcher and, to a lesser extent, the responding LEO.
2) Re: Legality of open carry: In all but 7 or so states, open carry is legal and not a crime. In many of the remainder of those states, open carry is legal without a license. Therefore, no crime to investigate. It is no more illegal to openly carry a gun in these states than to carry a cell phone or PDA. No crime, no suspicion of crime, therefore no reason for the open carrier to be detained.
3) Re: Being uncomfortable: There is no fundamental human right to feel comfortable. There is, however, a fundamental human right to self-defense. But the latter is irrelevant here. It's moreso to reinforce the point that people can be offended by anything, but that doesn't mean the anything is doing wrong. Look to race relations in America for a brilliant example of this. I also don't know where you get this idea that the 911 caller deserves to see his victim harassed by an LEO...
4) Re: Interactions with LEOs: By all means react to LEOs with the same attitude they use toward you. But that does not include an expectation to give up one's rights in order to please an LEO. There's a reason that the founders of this country gave so much power to the individual... they wanted to limit the potential for the government to grow too powerful. For a case in point, read up on Rich Banks over in the Pennsylvania forum about what happens when LEOs overstep their boundaries... ironically, the trouble in which he found himself after the police took his gun and ran the serial number is what I warned about on PAFOA several weeks before, and was told that I was cop-bashing and paranoid. Anyhow... I'm rambling at this point. Basically, there are rules of conduct for both parties in LEO interactions. This concept of the right to be left alone is something that can't be properly explained in a few lines.
I think that about covers the main issues...
I'll take it.
To nwsafety:
1) Re: "Man with a gun" calls: There is a responsibility on the part of the 911 operator here, to get information from the caller about whether a crime is taking place. "Is the gun in the man's hand or in his holster? Holster? Is he committing any crime? No? I'm sorry sir, if the situation changes and the man with a gun attempts a crime, give a call back." If I call 911 and say "there's someone walking down the street with blue hair, send the cops!", I probably won't get a patrol car to investigate no matter how scared or uncomfortable I am. At any rate... if police resources are being wasted on open carriers, that is a failure of the 911 dispatcher and, to a lesser extent, the responding LEO.
2) Re: Legality of open carry: In all but 7 or so states, open carry is legal and not a crime. In many of the remainder of those states, open carry is legal without a license. Therefore, no crime to investigate. It is no more illegal to openly carry a gun in these states than to carry a cell phone or PDA. No crime, no suspicion of crime, therefore no reason for the open carrier to be detained.
3) Re: Being uncomfortable: There is no fundamental human right to feel comfortable. There is, however, a fundamental human right to self-defense. But the latter is irrelevant here. It's moreso to reinforce the point that people can be offended by anything, but that doesn't mean the anything is doing wrong. Look to race relations in America for a brilliant example of this. I also don't know where you get this idea that the 911 caller deserves to see his victim harassed by an LEO...
4) Re: Interactions with LEOs: By all means react to LEOs with the same attitude they use toward you. But that does not include an expectation to give up one's rights in order to please an LEO. There's a reason that the founders of this country gave so much power to the individual... they wanted to limit the potential for the government to grow too powerful. For a case in point, read up on Rich Banks over in the Pennsylvania forum about what happens when LEOs overstep their boundaries... ironically, the trouble in which he found himself after the police took his gun and ran the serial number is what I warned about on PAFOA several weeks before, and was told that I was cop-bashing and paranoid. Anyhow... I'm rambling at this point. Basically, there are rules of conduct for both parties in LEO interactions. This concept of the right to be left alone is something that can't be properly explained in a few lines.
I think that about covers the main issues...
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
imperialism2024 wrote:
Get ready to explain the difference between community caretaking and criminal investigation. It comes up regularly.
imperialism2024 wrote:
Hey! Not bad.SNIP I'll take it.
Get ready to explain the difference between community caretaking and criminal investigation. It comes up regularly.
imperialism2024
Regular Member
imported post
Citizen wrote:
Citizen wrote:
Hmm, I'll give it a good night's sleep first.imperialism2024 wrote:Hey! Not bad.I'll take it.
Get ready to explain the difference between community caretaking and criminal investigation. It comes up regularly.