I just took the CCW class with Micheal Bender

[phred]

..
I took the class for two reasons. To obtain my permit, and learn more about proficient use of my firearm. I got one of those things out of the class.

Which one did you get?

 

[protias]

I will say this though, it seems he has quite the fan club here. I had no intention of starting this type of discussion. I expected this discussion to move into.."So, you think the UT class will cover WI when it passes?" or "The next class you should take is XYZ, that will bring you up to speed on cases with permit holders using their firearms in defense." etc..

No one knows if there will be reciprocity with other states because the law is not written yet.

 

[MKEgal]

I am not required by law to help anyone. Please show me in any statute/case law where I am required to help my fellow man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_to_rescue#Common_law
(Among other listed relationships with "duty to rescue"):

In the United States, as of 2009 ten states had laws on the books requiring that people at least notify law enforcement of and/or seek aid for strangers in peril under certain conditions: California, Florida, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Ohio, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and Wisconsin (940.34).

http://volokh.com/2009/11/03/duty-to-rescuereport-statutes/

WI 940.34(2)(a) Any person who knows that a crime is being committed and that a victim is exposed to bodily harm shall summon law enforcement officers or other assistance or shall provide assistance to the victim.
http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&d=stats&jd=940.34
There are exceptions for being placed in danger by trying to help, or placing others in danger (e.g. leaving children alone in the house to go out & help @ a car crash... but you can call 911).

If you're never piloting a boat this won't apply, but:
http://www.uscg.mil/international/affairs/Publications/MMSCode/english/Chap9.htm

Both the 1958 Geneva Convention on the High Seas and the 1982 LOS Convention provide that every state shall require the master of a vessel flying its flag, insofar as can be done without serious danger to the ship, crew, or passengers, to render assistance to any person found at sea in danger of being lost and to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in distress if informed of their need for assistance, insofar as it can reasonably be expected.

In addition, SOLAS requires the master of every merchant ship and private vessel to assist persons in distress and to broadcast warning messages with respect to dangerous conditions or hazards encountered at sea.

That's what I actually went looking for 20 minutes ago, then stumbled upon the state statutes above.

 

[cleveland]

Which one did you get?

My carry permit, or will with-in 60 days. I have to fill out the info and mail in the check.

The shooting part was 10 and 20 feet. It seemed like I could reach out and touch 10 feet, and 20/30 feet is my usual shooting distance. I was hoping to learn better skills, and have my bad habit pointed out to me. The NRA classes sound more like the classes I am looking for.

 

[protias]

My carry permit, or will with-in 60 days. I have to fill out the info and mail in the check.

The shooting part was 10 and 20 feet. It seemed like I could reach out and touch 10 feet, and 20/30 feet is my usual shooting distance. I was hoping to learn better skills, and have my bad habit pointed out to me. The NRA classes sound more like the classes I am looking for.

I'm guessing you were at Fletcher Arms since you took the class this weekend. A better man to learn how to shoot from is Bob Llanas. He will show you what you are doing incorrectly and how to correct it. He is the one I learned how to shoot from.

 

[Claytron]

Clayton, as an instructor that has talked with GLOCK34 on many occasions, I have had the chance to see that he is not (as you say) a "Armchair Hero", but in fact educated on this matter. (Lest we forget forum rules about personal attacks)

Also, as an instructor with actual self defense experience, and far more teaching and practical experience in this matter than Mr. Bender, as well as an extensive military and civilian firearms training background, I can tell you first hand that this man has limited knowledge, and while his legal knowledge is exceptional, Bender is not a lawyer, so the legal aspect what he teaches someone is purely speculative. Aside from that the methods he teaches for the use of a handgun are dangerous.

He is selling a false sense of security. Thats It, Nothing More. Several friends of mine who are instructors, as well as myself, have made it a point to make sure that our courses are all inclusive, and not just a teaser for what the next class will be. When we offer courses, we make sure that our students are prepared in accordance with what we have offered for that course.

He has made clear that his opinion is all that he considers to be truth, and that is all that matters to him. As MkeGal hinted at, an instructor's opinion should never play a part in appropriate instruction. Opinion is not personal experience, and the best instructors in the world will tell you that it doesn't matter what they think, it only matters what happens.

Im curious, do you have a link to your qualifications and proof of all the training and experience you claim you have? no offense but one random guy saying people should believe another random guy doesnt real help a whole lot. I dont know the guy i was talking to, i suppose the only reason i assumed he didnt know what he was talking about was become ive seen him make multiple offensive comments towards black people calling them savages and animals, so i just assumed his ignorance would show up elsewhere.

 

[Claytron]

LOL HAha ha ha ROFLMAO !!!!!!! If you can't keep up on the what has been said in the WISCONSIN forum for the last 6 months....KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT ! Your .02 cents is unwanted & not needed. You butt in on a on going conversation & your Freeking as CLUELESS as a dumb blond cheerleader ! Stay out of conversations that your not involved in from day 1. Seems like alot of morons chime in from MAINE.

I wish ENDING morons was legal.

"LOL HAha ha ROFLMAO" "KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT !"

oh and my favorite -

"I wish ENDING morons was legal"

So over aggressive people that type like 14 year olds and issue death threats are supposed to be good representatives of the gun community? How old are you, mid thirties? And thats how you talk to people? Youre a disgrace dude.

 

[1FASTC4]

Carrying a concealed weapon is not a right, it's a privilege.

I just re-read the constitution and couldn't find reference to this specific mode of carrying a weapon. Will you please explain to me how certain means of bearing arms is a right and certain others are a privilege and cite your source so I can better learn it?

 

[GLOCK21GB]

"LOL HAha ha ROFLMAO" "KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT !"

oh and my favorite -

"I wish ENDING morons was legal"

So over aggressive people that type like 14 year olds and issue death threats are supposed to be good representatives of the gun community? How old are you, mid thirties? And thats how you talk to people? Youre a disgrace dude.

I guess being from a nothing state like Maine. you should know ALL about being a disgrace DUDE. Do us all a big Favor stay out of things and conversations that don't concern you...... Death threats ?? I will let you know when I issue a death threat.

 

[GLOCK21GB]

Im curious, do you have a link to your qualifications and proof of all the training and experience you claim you have? no offense but one random guy saying people should believe another random guy doesnt real help a whole lot. I dont know the guy i was talking to, i suppose the only reason i assumed he didnt know what he was talking about was become ive seen him make multiple offensive comments towards black people calling them savages and animals, so i just assumed his ignorance would show up elsewhere.

So Maine is good for one, thing....Breeding Trolls !!!! EVERYONE THIS GUY IS A TROLL !!!!! IGNORE THE PILE OF PIG DUNG !!!!!

 

[cleveland]

I just re-read the constitution and couldn't find reference to this specific mode of carrying a weapon. Will you please explain to me how certain means of bearing arms is a right and certain others are a privilege and cite your source so I can better learn it?

Did you read the rest of the thread? Maybe you missed the part where I was corrected by CalicoJack10?

 

[CalicoJack10]

Cleveland,

I was not trying to correct you, I was simply having a discussion.

As far as my resume, no, I don't have it posted. But anyone who has met me (or talked to me extensively) will tell you that I am 190% worth my salt.


Claytron,

It is easy to collect certifications and papers that will tell people that you are the greatest, but when it comes down to the wire, and you are standing there on the line with your life in the hands of the person that you taught, the only thing that matters is what experience you have. And while I do have some of these papers (Because I thought I needed them to teach), bragging about how great I am means nothing if I can't teach for chit.

I could dazzle you with pictures of me shooting clay pigeons with a pistol, or hitting a boot lace at 100 yards with an assault rifle. Or I could just tell you that I work closely with several of Bender's prior students who have seen what I was talking about when I pointed out flaws in the training he provides.

I guess the point is, what I can do with a firearm, or even what I have done with a firearm means nothing (with the exception of teaching) when it comes to teaching you what to do with a firearm. My knowledge and reputation speak for themselves. If you choose to believe me or not is up to you. Because like any instructor on the planet, the first course, or even conversation is a gamble. And I am here to help people live safely, nothing more, nothing less.

P.S. I have been at a minimum an assistant instructor for nearly 2 decades. Including military and civilian and I am barely in my mid 30's.

 

[cleveland]

That was someone else that asked about your resume. An education is no substitute for intelligence.

 

[CalicoJack10]

That was someone else that asked about your resume. An education is no substitute for intelligence.

Fixed it, thanks for pointing that out for me.

 

[1FASTC4]

Did you read the rest of the thread? Maybe you missed the part where I was corrected by CalicoJack10?

I read the thread. I felt that perhaps this was your opinion and I wanted to know what you based it on.

Privileges can be taken, rights can not be taken, even from criminals

felons... right to vote?

 

[GLOCK21GB]

I read the thread. I felt that perhaps this was your opinion and I wanted to know what you based it on.



felons... right to vote?

lol.. True

 

[CalicoJack10]

I read the thread. I felt that perhaps this was your opinion and I wanted to know what you based it on.



felons... right to vote?

I would have to agree, I think that there is some malfunction in the general idea of what someone's right is. It SHOULD be something that can't be taken away, but that just shows that government is getting to big. After all, when we started the idea was to make sure that there were some rights that the government couldn't touch, and that is why we have the "Bill Of Rights". But over the course of time, that has been manipulated by politicians and we have ended up with a "New King" as opposed to a government that is of the people, by the people, and for the people.

Elected positions were meant to be extra duties, not full time jobs. And that lasted until we were spread all across the continent.

For example, we are suppose to have "Certain Inalienable Rights" like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty has taken a serious beating at the hands of lawmakers who take away our freedoms based on their own personal interest, Life is questionable since we have law enforcement that is allowed to kill and get away with it, and the pursuit of happiness has been replaced with the desire to keep from being torn apart by the wolves that are given an iota of tenuous power.

Rights is a word that was never meant to be negotiable, but we have serious problems when we have to fight for those RIGHTS.

 

[LR Yote 312]

I would have to agree, I think that there is some malfunction in the general idea of what someone's right is. It SHOULD be something that can't be taken away, but that just shows that government is getting to big. After all, when we started the idea was to make sure that there were some rights that the government couldn't touch, and that is why we have the "Bill Of Rights". But over the course of time, that has been manipulated by politicians and we have ended up with a "New King" as opposed to a government that is of the people, by the people, and for the people.

Elected positions were meant to be extra duties, not full time jobs. And that lasted until we were spread all across the continent.

For example, we are suppose to have "Certain Inalienable Rights" like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Liberty has taken a serious beating at the hands of lawmakers who take away our freedoms based on their own personal interest, Life is questionable since we have law enforcement that is allowed to kill and get away with it, and the pursuit of happiness has been replaced with the desire to keep from being torn apart by the wolves that are given an iota of tenuous power.

Rights is a word that was never meant to be negotiable, but we have serious problems when we have to fight for those RIGHTS.

Well Said.....

LR Yote

 

[jpm84092]

New Fee Schedule for Utah Permit

Utah has posted its' new changes to Utah gun law. The fee for non-resident permits is going up $2.50 from $62.50 to $65.00. The changes become effective on May 10. 2011. Anyone who has attended Mr. Bender's class - DO NOT DALLY. Send in your permit application NOW. If it is received after May 10, 2011 it will be REJECTED because 1) the application will be on an obsolete form - and - 2) the fee will be incorrect.

If you are late, all is not lost. You need to download the current form from the internet and get Mr. Bender to sign and affix his stamp all over again.

The changes to Utah law can be found in the Utah BCI Newsletter to Instructors:

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/BCINewsletterApril2011.pdf

The current course for the Utah Concealed Firearm Permit my be updated soon, but today's version can be found here:

http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/documents/MTC01032011.pdf

While events in my life may cause me to do it sooner, my current thinking is that I will return to WI over Easter Weekend. There is an Open Carry BBQ scheduled for Janesville's Riverside Park. Does anyone know if there is electric power available in the pavilion for me to do my course there? (I honestly do not remember.)

 

[CalicoJack10]

I don't know about the electric, but if you do the class, let me know and I will make it a point to be there.