I need some help, namely in the forms of laws/codes.

[Grapeshot]

Misinformation and stupid don't just occur on one side of the fence. Over the weekend I ran across a vendor at a Flea Market. He was selling knives and assorted things. There were a bunch of little Mexican kids looking at the throwing stars.
I noticed he had, switchblades, black Jacks and brass knuckles, in with the other knives.

When the kids left I quietly told him he should stick them under the table or he was gonna get his backsides busted and have his inventory confiscated.

He spent the next 5 minutes telling me how the switchblades and throwing stars were letter openers, the brass knuckles were paperweights and the blackjacks were heavy toys so kids could legally buy them.

As I said earlier, I don't like to argue with idiots....I told him he must be right and went off to mind my own business.:uhoh:

For serious collectors and recivitists only. :uhoh:

 

[peter nap]

For serious collectors and recivitists only. :uhoh:

I really try to be helpful Grape.:lol:

If Novacop were at the range and I noticed he was holding his gun backwards..

I'd intervene and tell him to take a deep breath, let half out and squeeze with the last digit of his thumb.

He'd probably just jerk the trigger anyway.

 

[swinokur]

Wow your friend is 100%

WRONG on every one. Does he work at a gun store?

Remember this about arguments:

It's like wrestling with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it

I have no dog in this fight. I unfortunately still reside in The Peoples Republic of Marylandistan

 

[ocholsteroc]

1. You can NOT open carry with one in the chamber, unless you have your conceal permit.

2. You can NOT drive with your gun in a holster on your hip, it MUST be in the passenger seat/dashboard. (I know there is a current thread about this, but I'd like things in one place)

3. You MUST have documentation of purchasing your gun at ALL times if you are pulled/stopped by a LEO

4. ALL guns MUST be registered in VA (He KNOWS because his was registered when he purchased it, and mine isn't legal if it wasn't registered)

5. The law means nothing and the LEO can/will arrest you if you are doing/dont have these things, and the court WILL back the LEO up, and there is no person or group that will stand up for your rights, and even if there is that means nothing. (Ok, so not a law/code...but thoughts?)

What ? you should always carry ID with you.

 

[Citizen]

SNIP As for what Citizen posted...please don't believe what he says about LEOs. I can assure you that what the "friend" posted is not even close to being logical and I am a LEO. I can't see any of my coworkers supporting any of the friend's suggestions that were mentioned, nor would they enforce laws that don't exist. Not only would it be almost impossible to do so, it would leave a LEO/department civilly, criminally, and professionally liable.

Yes, yes. Please do not believe Citizen, folks. Just believe your own memory.

We've read the OCer reports where police said the owner of a seized gun needed to prove he was the owner in order to get it back.

We've read the OCer reports where one of the things the cop told the OCer the cop had to make sure the gun was not stolen.

We've read the OCer reports where...(you get the idea.)


Now, as to NoVA cops in particular, lets not forget all the really cool, totally invented nonsense OCers have reported hearing from cops. Lets see.

There were those OCers in Manassas who had ID illegally demanded of them, and were illegally ordered to illegally conceal their legally OCed handguns. That only took 130 VCDL members showing up at a city council meeting, and 90 more showing up at a later meeting--to get denials of wrong-doing from the police.

There was ChinChin's wife who was threatened for not notifying the traffic stop cop that she was carrying.

There was an OCer who was told during a traffic stop that getting out of the car while the holder of CC permit would get him shot (nevermind whether he actually had the gun on him, or had even left it at home.)

There was the nonsense at Barnes & Noble in Alexandria. I forget the OCers username here. That police department used totally bogus rationale to illegally withhold FOIA information, too.

There was the OCDO member traffic stopped in Springfield. The OCer that moved to participate in the Free State Project a while later.

And, there was that OCer in Reston who was seized while walking to the store.

Yep, a deep well of reliable information, that's our NoVA cops. Including the one who I quoted above. Selective memory or something, I guess.

 

[WhatTimeIsIt?]

3. You MUST have documentation of purchasing your gun at ALL times if you are pulled/stopped by a LEO

4. ALL guns MUST be registered in VA (He KNOWS because his was registered when he purchased it, and mine isn't legal if it wasn't registered)

5. The law means nothing and the LEO can/will arrest you if you are doing/dont have these things, and the court WILL back the LEO up, and there is no person or group that will stand up for your rights, and even if there is that means nothing. (Ok, so not a law/code...but thoughts?)

Am I wrong, but didn't America win the war? I swear I saw the stars and stripes above the VA flag earlier today, not the swastika or hammer and sickle.

 

[NovaCop]

Yes, yes. Please do not believe Citizen, folks. Just believe your own memory.

We've read the OCer reports where police said the owner of a seized gun needed to prove he was the owner in order to get it back.

We've read the OCer reports where one of the things the cop told the OCer the cop had to make sure the gun was not stolen.

We've read the OCer reports where...(you get the idea.)


Now, as to NoVA cops in particular, lets not forget all the really cool, totally invented nonsense OCers have reported hearing from cops. Lets see.

There were those OCers in Manassas who had ID illegally demanded of them, and were illegally ordered to illegally conceal their legally OCed handguns. That only took 130 VCDL members showing up at a city council meeting, and 90 more showing up at a later meeting--to get denials of wrong-doing from the police.

There was ChinChin's wife who was threatened for not notifying the traffic stop cop that she was carrying.

There was an OCer who was told during a traffic stop that getting out of the car while the holder of CC permit would get him shot (nevermind whether he actually had the gun on him, or had even left it at home.)

There was the nonsense at Barnes & Noble in Alexandria. I forget the OCers username here. That police department used totally bogus rationale to illegally withhold FOIA information, too.

There was the OCDO member traffic stopped in Springfield. The OCer that moved to participate in the Free State Project a while later.

And, there was that OCer in Reston who was seized while walking to the store.

Yep, a deep well of reliable information, that's our NoVA cops. Including the one who I quoted above. Selective memory or something, I guess.

I am not denying that there are incidents that occur where LEOs are wrong when it comes to OCing. However, I tend not to fully believe in what anyone posts on a website without fully seeing what both sides say on a matter. Even your own VCDL president has posted (recently) about LEOs being in favor and supporting OC. I am merely suggesting that you turning every thread into OCers vs LEOs is getting old. You make assumptions that someone who just bought their first gun obtained their crazy opinions from a LEO. How can you even correlate the two? It's easy for anyone to search your recent posts on this site and see that you mostly post on threads dealing with police encounters (and not just even in VA, other states as well) with anti LEO comments.

I support gun rights, I support OCers, I support LEOs, and I think it would be best to have a positive relationship between the both. You will never live in a society without laws, with enforcement, so you should accept that fact and work at making a positive change if you feel things are wrong. LEOs do read these threads, and slandering every LEO the way you and some other posters do (a minority of people here, this is not intended for the majority) just builds a negative image of OCers and puts a wall up with LEOs. Just to try to ridicule me for being a LEO and suggesting that LEO opinions don't matter won't make me go away (including one poster who suggested me shooting myself in this thread, yes very mature).

OC traffic stop in Spingfield, OC in Alexandria Barnes n Nobel, and "Chin Chin's" wife? That is what you use to support your ideology? Please give me case law, reports, or at least new stories of situations that happen. I didn't even read up on this site about those interactions. I do read up on the "Open Carry in Nova" thread, and read and see people OCing daily w/out any negative LEO interactions.

Take care Mr. Citizen.

 

[nova]

I really try to be helpful Grape.:lol:

If Novacop were at the range and I noticed he was holding his gun backwards..
*snip*

really...?

Now, as to NoVA cops in particular, lets not forget all the really cool, totally invented nonsense OCers have reported hearing from cops. Lets see.

There were those OCers in Manassas who had ID illegally demanded of them, and were illegally ordered to illegally conceal their legally OCed handguns. That only took 130 VCDL members showing up at a city council meeting, and 90 more showing up at a later meeting--to get denials of wrong-doing from the police.

There was ChinChin's wife who was threatened for not notifying the traffic stop cop that she was carrying.

There was an OCer who was told during a traffic stop that getting out of the car while the holder of CC permit would get him shot (nevermind whether he actually had the gun on him, or had even left it at home.)

There was the nonsense at Barnes & Noble in Alexandria. I forget the OCers username here. That police department used totally bogus rationale to illegally withhold FOIA information, too.

There was the OCDO member traffic stopped in Springfield. The OCer that moved to participate in the Free State Project a while later.

And, there was that OCer in Reston who was seized while walking to the store.

Yep, a deep well of reliable information, that's our NoVA cops. Including the one who I quoted above. Selective memory or something, I guess.

And I've read plenty of positive LEO experiences posted here too, and a few of them are my own. But like guns portrayed in the media, you remember the bad stuff (as you should, of course) more than the good. I know a few of the Tony's 7 guys very well and have at least met the others a few times and that incident will always be a scar.

Now of course I'm younger and likely don't have as much experience in interactions with LEOs as others here so I can only go by what I've experienced personally and what I read.

 

[nova]

Wow your friend is 100%

WRONG on every one. Does he work at a gun store?

The people working at NoVA gun stores know state and federal laws very well...it's their job to. The ones in Manassas, Herndon, and Lorton I know for sure from personal experiences.

 

[peter nap]

really...?
.

Yes...REALLY!

Of course that is open to interpretation based on age and locality.
I'm past the "Golly Gee, next month I can get my drivers license or Golly Geee, next month I can get my CHP.." Stage.

 

[Grapeshot]

Yes...REALLY!

Of course that is open to interpretation based on age and locality.
I'm past the "Golly Gee, next month I can get my drivers license or Golly Geee, next month I can get my CHP.." Stage.

At least you don't come across as a "sour grape." :lol:

 

[nova]

Of course that is open to interpretation based on age and locality.
I'm past the "Golly Gee, next month I can get my drivers license or Golly Geee, next month I can get my CHP.." Stage.

Please continue.

 

[peter nap]

Please continue.

With what?

Rattling NovaCop's cage or CHiPpers?:lol:

 

[Grapeshot]

Yes...REALLY!

Of course that is open to interpretation based on age and locality.
I'm past the "Golly Gee, next month I can get my drivers license or Golly Geee, next month I can get my CHP.." Stage.

Please continue.

He will as long as he watches his diet, keeps his head down and says "Yes ma'am" occasionally.

 

[fizzer]

Any update from the OP

Did he get a chance to talk to his friend?

 

[Grapeshot]

Did she get a chance to talk to her friend?

Fixed is for you.

By the sound of things that may be a long, hard road, but if anyone can do it, she can.

 

[InkdNPrcdAngl]

Hey, I'm still around!
Actually, he's been put on orders by the military, so I haven't had much of a chance to talk to him. On top of that, I'm a little under the weather (darn skitzophrenic VA weather!).

I did, however, get a chance to get one of Ed's OC cards to him, as well as some other info I was able to find and print out (basically the same things on the card, but from a couple different sites)

He said he would read it, so that's a start, right?

Thanks for the vote of confidence Grapeshot!

 

[user]

I thought that was hilarious! Tell your friend that he's absolutely correct, and let the fool think the way he does. Oh, and give him my phone number - that kind of thinking always leads to legal problems.

 

[ProShooter]

Oh, and give him my phone number - that kind of thinking always leads to legal problems.

Like shooting fish in a barrel. They'll be lining up around the block for ya at this rate!

 

[SIGguy229]

Okay, so in discussion with a friend of mine who purchased his first gun around the same time as I did, things began on the path to getting heated. I stopped things there and told him, find the laws, codes, etc to support what you're saying, I'll do the same.
Here are the standpoints he came up with. Please provide me with the laws or codes either supporting or nullifying (is that the right word?).
Thank you.

1. You can NOT open carry with one in the chamber, unless you have your conceal permit.

Wrong. The law is silent on this. The law tells you what you CAN'T do....not what you can. The VA code doesn't address loaded or unloaded, so carry as you like (no permit= OC loaded, permit = OC or CC loaded)

2. You can NOT drive with your gun in a holster on your hip, it MUST be in the passenger seat/dashboard. (I know there is a current thread about this, but I'd like things in one place)

It cannot be hidden from common observation.

3. You MUST have documentation of purchasing your gun at ALL times if you are pulled/stopped by a LEO

Nothing in the VA Code says this. This is fiction.

4. ALL guns MUST be registered in VA (He KNOWS because his was registered when he purchased it, and mine isn't legal if it wasn't registered)

There is no gun registration in Virginia. I repeat: THERE IS NO GUN REGISTRATION IN VIRGINIA. Say it a 3rd time: THERE IS NO GUN REGISTRATION IN VIRGINIA (caveat: unless you have a Class III weapon and have the ATF tax stamp). Anything else is fiction.

5. The law means nothing and the LEO can/will arrest you if you are doing/dont have these things, and the court WILL back the LEO up, and there is no person or group that will stand up for your rights, and even if there is that means nothing. (Ok, so not a law/code...but thoughts?)

This is too stupid to address. I've OC'd (and CC'd) in VA for 8 years, never a problem. Has he never heard of the VCDL?

That's truely all I can remember at the moment, because I was begining to feel irritated and realized I needed to end the conversation then and there. I know there were one or two other things, and may remember them later.

Thanks guys and gals :monkey

When you talk to idiots, have them show you the VA code where they cite their assertions.