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I pulled a drunk over last night

Charles Paul Lincoln

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Jan 14, 2008
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222
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Seattle-ish, Washington, USA
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NavyLT wrote:
The only thing I said was that if you want to risk your freedom and your ability to carry firearms by chasing down a drunk driver and stopping them by performing a blocking maneuver with your vehicle, you go right ahead, good for you. But in a situation like that, should you end up having to shoot said drunk driver, I wouldn't plan on a claim of self defense going very far with a jury.


Let's look at this from a different perspective, and see if this line of thinking is consistent, or if the right to bear arms is the driving issue.

I was an EMT for many years, both paid and volunteer. In my travels, I stopped on many accident scenes to render aid, even when I was off duty. There was no requirement I do so, I was often placing myself in significant danger, and there was certainly a risk that any mistake would land me in a courtroom defending a lawsuit (I was licensed by the state, so good samaritan laws might not shield me, and the courts have now said good sams can be sued for negligence). Should I have not stopped? Just left those two ejected patients lying on the highway, one choking on his own blood? If it were your spouse or child, what would you want me to do?

Just last year, I stopped at 2-car rollover fatality to render aid. My certifications are lapsed, yet I cared for the one living patient the best I could until aid arrived. I had to crawl into an overturned car without gear. Hold her bloody head without gloves, and then they extricated her around me. Dangerous? Yes. Chance of lawsuit? Yes. (It was interesting that I too was carrying and nobody said a word.) Could I have been another of the sheep that were just standing around with thier thumb up their a$$es? Yes. But I'm not going to stand by and watch a woman suffocate because she can't protect her airway, even if it is because she is obviously on something. (which is why I have been subpoenaed to testify in the case)

I don't put my firearm rights above any of my other rights. Any time we intervene, there is a possibility it could go very wrong and we could lose our liberty, voting rights, etc. We count on the court system (imperfect as it is) for justice.

We are not the police. But, we are men and women who apparently believe in the founding principles of this country and the rights that go with citizenship. Part of the reason that crime is so prevalent now is that ordinary citizens don't stand up and say "stop." Too many people just stick their heads in the sand and figure that somebody else will do whatever needs doing -- whether it is stopping a drunk driver, intervening in a street assault, or telling a kid to stop vandalizing the mall.

SemperCarry, as a citizen, I appreciate you placing yourself at risk to do what is right, and I applaud your actions. I can find no fault in anything you did, and wish more had the fortitude to step forward in similar scenarios.

Well done!

Charles
 

SlackwareRobert

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Jun 10, 2008
Messages
1,338
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Alabama, ,
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I've reported 4 drunk drivers, twice police said they had no cars to take care of it.
Other two were state trooper, and unmarked trooper car, both of those got disconnected
when I gave them the licence plate ending in ST & MU.

No you treat DUI like any other armed aggressor, and you make sure they are
the ones to loose the encounter.
blocking his car is not a way to win in a crash test, you don't have choice
of impact to maximize your chances.

I am curious about statement cops took from you, the one drunk driver wreck I
witnessed I was told goodby once I told them he was going the speed limit
they lost interest in any stements.
 

Rattrapper

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Swanzey,NH, ,
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Hey Sempercarry! That's why he is a navylt. We need some one to drive the boat so that we can go ashore, and make the decissions that the sqeamish can only talk about.UUUURAAAH!!!
 

sempercarry

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Oct 27, 2008
Messages
378
Location
America
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Rattrapper wrote:
Hey Sempercarry! That's why he is a navylt. We need some one to drive the boat so that we can go ashore, and make the decissions that the sqeamish can only talk about.UUUURAAAH!!!

YUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT

The statment went something like this,

trooper-what alerted you that he was drunk

me- he was slowly weaving in and out of his lane

trooper- which lane?

me- the right lane, he was hitting the wake up lines on the side of the highway then jerking his car back on the road then he would continue weaving slowly.

trooper-is that all?

me-No, he couldn't maintain his speed to save his life, he would accelerate then decelerate by about 15-20mph every 20-30 seconds.

trooper- ok that should do it. the arresting trooper may give you a call to get your statment but I doubt it, he saw where you stopped the guy going the wrong direction....usually thats enough.
 

adamsesq

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Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
367
Location
, Oregon, USA
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marshaul wrote:
Sorry, stopping a drunk driver is not a heroic way to protect your community.
Of this we disagree. It absolutely was heroic.

marshaul wrote:
You all act like he stopped a rampaging killer, but I don't see any evidence this guy was anything other than "obviously drunk". Drunk driving is dangerous, but I'm not going to buy into all the hysteria and agree that it implies imminent death or injury.
He did. If you don't buy into this it is only because you don't spend the time out on the streets picking up the pieces that some of us do.

As to "Self Policing" and "Letting the LEOs do all the work" and "We used to help each other" I totally agree. But what I don't know is if it is the chicken or the egg. Has society gone down hill in part because we don't do this any more or do we not do this anymore because society has gone so down hill?

Back when I was young I knew that if I did something deserving any parent in the neighborhood would administer a proper tounge lashing or worse and then send me home where I would definitely receive worse than what I had already gotten.Nowadays that would never happen as we would never dare discipline somebody else's child.

I guess what I am suggesting is that part of the problem isnot just the criminals but also that we have created lawsor at least a social mentality where it is often too dangerous to get involved.

-adamsesq
 

adamsesq

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
367
Location
, Oregon, USA
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Charles Paul Lincoln wrote:
Let's look at this from a different perspective, and see if this line of thinking is consistent, or if the right to bear arms is the driving issue.

I was an EMT for many years, both paid and volunteer. In my travels, I stopped on many accident scenes to render aid, even when I was off duty. There was no requirement I do so, I was often placing myself in significant danger, and there was certainly a risk that any mistake would land me in a courtroom defending a lawsuit (I was licensed by the state, so good samaritan laws might not shield me, and the courts have now said good sams can be sued for negligence). Should I have not stopped? Just left those two ejected patients lying on the highway, one choking on his own blood? If it were your spouse or child, what would you want me to do?

Just last year, I stopped at 2-car rollover fatality to render aid. My certifications are lapsed, yet I cared for the one living patient the best I could until aid arrived. I had to crawl into an overturned car without gear. Hold her bloody head without gloves, and then they extricated her around me. Dangerous? Yes. Chance of lawsuit? Yes. (It was interesting that I too was carrying and nobody said a word.) Could I have been another of the sheep that were just standing around with thier thumb up their a$$es? Yes. But I'm not going to stand by and watch a woman suffocate because she can't protect her airway, even if it is because she is obviously on something. (which is why I have been subpoenaed to testify in the case)

I don't put my firearm rights above any of my other rights. Any time we intervene, there is a possibility it could go very wrong and we could lose our liberty, voting rights, etc. We count on the court system (imperfect as it is) for justice.

We are not the police. But, we are men and women who apparently believe in the founding principles of this country and the rights that go with citizenship. Part of the reason that crime is so prevalent now is that ordinary citizens don't stand up and say "stop." Too many people just stick their heads in the sand and figure that somebody else will do whatever needs doing -- whether it is stopping a drunk driver, intervening in a street assault, or telling a kid to stop vandalizing the mall.

SemperCarry, as a citizen, I appreciate you placing yourself at risk to do what is right, and I applaud your actions. I can find no fault in anything you did, and wish more had the fortitude to step forward in similar scenarios.

Well done!

Charles

Charles, as both an attorney AND an EMT/Firefighter, I couldn't agree with your post any more. Following legal/safe advice is not always doing the moral thing. Sometimes you have to make a choice. OP here made a choice and I can't fault him for that. Nor can I recommend that anyone else do the same thing. But I'd sure like to think I would.

-adamsesq
 

sempercarry

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378
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America
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adamsesq wrote:
I guess what I am suggesting is that part of the problem isnot just the criminals but also that we have created lawsor at least a social mentality where it is often too dangerous to get involved.

-adamsesq


+1


to many sheeple that think "we are a society of laws and police, they will take care of it" Criminals don't give 2 shits about a piece of paper that says they cant do somthing.
 

okkid

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Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
172
Location
Hoquiam, , USA
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marshaul wrote:
Sorry, stopping a drunk driver is not a heroic way to protect your community.

You all act like he stopped a rampaging killer, but I don't see any evidence this guy was anything other than "obviously drunk". Drunk driving is dangerous, but I'm not going to buy into all the hysteria and agree that it implies imminent death or injury.

Reporting him to the police would be the sensible thing to do. Following him is far too mall-ninja for my taste.
Sorry but your wrong!
 

TechnoWeenie

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amzbrady wrote:
gotta watch in case he tries to ram ya, if he is uninsured your screwed.

That's ADW, he's using his car as a deadly weapon.

He's got a lot more to worry about than a DUI if he's trying to run cars off the road..
 

marshaul

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Joined
Aug 13, 2007
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Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
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okkid wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Sorry, stopping a drunk driver is not a heroic way to protect your community.

You all act like he stopped a rampaging killer, but I don't see any evidence this guy was anything other than "obviously drunk". Drunk driving is dangerous, but I'm not going to buy into all the hysteria and agree that it implies imminent death or injury.

Reporting him to the police would be the sensible thing to do. Following him is far too mall-ninja for my taste.
Sorry but your wrong!
lol! Brilliant argument!

Thanks for reinforcing my convictions. Inanity has a way of doing that. :quirky

"Your" a clown. ;)
 

TechnoWeenie

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, ,
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marshaul wrote:
okkid wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Sorry, stopping a drunk driver is not a heroic way to protect your community.

You all act like he stopped a rampaging killer, but I don't see any evidence this guy was anything other than "obviously drunk". Drunk driving is dangerous, but I'm not going to buy into all the hysteria and agree that it implies imminent death or injury.

Reporting him to the police would be the sensible thing to do. Following him is far too mall-ninja for my taste.
Sorry but your wrong!




lol! Brilliant argument!

Thanks for reinforcing my convictions. Inanity has a way of doing that. :quirky

"Your" a clown. ;)


And 'were' all resurrecting a year old post... :D
 

swatspyder

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Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
573
Location
University Place, Washington, USA
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marshaul wrote:
okkid wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Sorry, stopping a drunk driver is not a heroic way to protect your community.

You all act like he stopped a rampaging killer, but I don't see any evidence this guy was anything other than "obviously drunk". Drunk driving is dangerous, but I'm not going to buy into all the hysteria and agree that it implies imminent death or injury.

Reporting him to the police would be the sensible thing to do. Following him is far too mall-ninja for my taste.
Sorry but your wrong!
lol! Brilliant argument!

Thanks for reinforcing my convictions. Inanity has a way of doing that. :quirky

"Your" a clown. ;)
Your argument is solid, up until that drunk driver that he didn't stop, runs a red light, and t-bones your wife and kids as they are driving home to see you after a day out. Where you didn't get to say I love you or goodbye to them that day because you had to be at work early in the morning, and you never get to say goodbye or I love you again.

Where does your argument stand after that happens?
 

erps

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Everyone here is making the assumption the driver is drunk. Up here in my neck of the woods, there is no P.C. for drunk driving just based on weaving all over the road. There is reasonable suspicion for DUI. That's kind of why I was wondering about citizens making stops on other citizens for reasonable suspicion.
 

gsx1138

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May 14, 2008
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Bremerton, Washington, United States
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I had a similar situation about 10 years ago with a similar result. Only I wasn't armed at the time (didn't think they should be legal at the time) so all I had was my cell phone and my fists. The police were there before I had to use either one. It also sickens me when people refuse to step up. How many on here love to talk tough but will just stand there with the rest of the crowd as someone is being victimized?

It's not about being a hero, it's about doing what's right.
 
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