imported post
Duly noted... now I say I buy a round of beers to bury the damn hatchet, eh?
I recommend the Snipes Brewery, in Sunnyside of course. Local hops, local beer.
The law may not require you to show your DL when you are asked for your CPL but unless your hobby is putting up with "Police Proceedure Hassles" it might be a good idea to do so. In over 45 years of carrying a pistol (both concealed and open) I have never been asked to show my CPL. In those years I have volunteered it to an officer 3 times and have never had one ask me to relinquish my handgun for any reason. IMHO one needs to make a choice. Be confrontational to make a point or just show the ID/CPL and be on your way. I guess it depends on what you want to do for an hour or so after being asked.
I don't do it as a matter of convenience (though it might go quicker if the cops sees the "knowmyfockingrights" sign on the forehead) but as a matter of principle. I believe that one should not be treated as a criminal for merely exercising a Constitutionally-enumerated right, and I'm not going to give up some of that right for the sake of saving a few minutes.
Once you give them leeway on a right, it will fade away. "A right non exercised is a right lost" is not something abstract.
And for the record, in the last incident, I was fully cooperative, repeatedly telling the officer where my CPL was, my ID, etc. He just rushed me and slapped the cuffs on. That's why I stopped carrying ID in the first place.
Circumstance #1, I am in line at the local stop & rob and I go to pay for my slurpee and I move my coat aside to get my wallet and reveal my previously concealed firearm in front of a cop. Cop asks to see my CPL. I show him my CPL (notice I am NOT required by RCW to surrender my CPL to him for inspection, I am only required to display it), my CPL says Mr. John H....., xxxx Jones Rd, Oak Harbor WA 98277, 360-720-xxxx - all valid information for name, address, etc. He now has no RAS to see an ID.
Nor did he need it!
If you are unconscious, or unable to give informed consent then I look for any ID I can find. I assume it is yours. A first name, middle initial and last name with birthdate will find any medical records that may be pertinent to keeping you alive. I don't need a picture. If you are carrying someone else's ID, you will be treated based on that other persons medical records. Oops, sorry, not my problem.
Exactly! If I'm injured and someone finds my CPL with all my info along with 2 pistols, I think they can assume it's me, or, they should require and IQ test for that job.
I found that when I wanted to defend the Constitution as well as this country I put on a uniform and served in the Army. Getting into a confrontation with a Law Officer and convince them that they are wrong is like trying to teach a Pig (sorry, pun unintended) how to sing. It will take a real long time and in the end all you will accomplish is pissing off the pig.
Our rights are not threatened in [foreign country here] they are threatened where we live. What good is serving in the federal army if you let them take our rights away right here?
One thing I will add to this is that a lot of times if you have an encounter with a LEO a lot of times it easier for them to just ask for ID than to stand there and ask whats your name? whats your address? whats your bday? A lot of this is stuff that is used for logs/reports. It isn't necessarily that they are trying to hassle you but that they are simply getting information they need for paperwork. A large part of police work is paperwork and they deal with enough crap everyday that I am willing to help them get their job done. I may not be legally obligated to provide ID but if I have it, I can provide it.
The problem I have with that is (1) they do not
need that information, and (2) we are accustoming ourselves to living in a "your papers" society, where we are no longer innocent until proven guilty, have to
prove that we have a right, etc. Whether or not they are being malignant is beside the point. They're chipping away at the freedom of travel (among others) on a daily basis, and if no one does nothing, it's going to get to the point where you get arrested in your driveway for not showing a proper internal passport.
