Gordie
Regular Member
imported post
OOPS! Double tap.
OOPS! Double tap.
I for one never said to shoot the attacker. I said that you would probably be justified in using lethal force. There are many different methods of using lethal force. If someone is attempting to take my gun, then they are attempting to use lethal force against me.Nobody said you have to carry all of that gear. However, I would highly recommend having at least one non-lethal option at your disposal. If you don't want to take heedto what I had to say, then fine, you don't have to. Its your butt, not mine. I'm trying to pass on some experience so you don't have to live it. I used to teach this sort of thing to civilians as well as federal government personnel at one time in my life and know what I'm talking about.
Its a good idea to get training in things other than just firearms because not every encounter is going to be one where using a firearm would be justified. At a minimum, get some OC spray and learn how to use it properly. There are lots of good brands out there...Vexor, Saber Red, First Defense, FOX, Punch II/III, ASP OC kubatons, etc. Pick one and learn how to use it. Check your local laws for any size restrictions or mixture restrictions and possession laws. Some places are more strict than others such as NY and CA.
Just because someone goes for your gun doesn't mean you can shoot them.Everydefensive situation is different and you have to use good judgement based on what is happening at the time. If you jump the gun, more than likely, itsgoing to be YOUR butt facing charges. The actualaggressor won't be facing charges because he'll be dead and will probablybe referred to as the "victim" by a prosecutor.
Another thing, if youfind yourself in a self defense situation, whatever you do, please keep inmind that you have a right to remain silent. DO NOT assume the police will be sympatheticto you and will be on your side. They will NOT. They are on the scene to investigate a homicide and you will be the one holding the smoking gun. Call your attorney and SHUT UP!!!!
If a non-LEO grabs your weapon without permission, wouldn't it be grand larceny or even strong-arm robbery?
+1 no brainer.You would sooner grab a rattlesnake's tongue.
Yata hey
The guy grabbed me from behind with no probable cause or identifying himself and his intentions, he gotrough on me at the scene while I was not resisting, and later at the police station he got caught by a superiorpunching me in the stomach while I was seated. He tried to force me to blow into a portable breathalizer, I told him i got somethng he can blow while I grabbed my crotch to show him exactly what I meant!HankT wrote:Sounds like the brutality in the last sentence would cover it.Nutczak wrote:Why were the charges dropped, Nutczak?I have been charged with battery of a public servant once already (the charges were laterdropped) whensomeone idiot grabbed me from behind and surprised me. I pushed into this unknown person to knock them off-balance and then came around with my other arm and punched this person in the chest as hard as I possibly could.
Imagine the look of shock on my face when I saw a sheriff's deputy landing on his ass and heard the wind getting knocked out of him, then the sound of him trying to catch his breath while on his hands and knees wheezing! The rest of the night got real ugly, real fast after that incident. I stopped after my initial hit, backed up and put my hands on top of my head to show surrender. Then the SOB tackeled me and tried to beat me whern I was not resisting.
Boyh, you sure got a purdy gun....Grapeshot wrote:
Only in certain parts of the Appalachians.:what:TheMrMitch wrote:Sounds like a religious experience.All Hell would break loose....at least for a few seconds.
Grapeshot....I like to say "You'd rather french kiss a rattlesnake than mess with me".
Yata hey
Regards
(blushing)Boyh, you sure got a purdy gun....
You best start prayin' I'm not a meatgazer....ixtow wrote:(blushing)Boyh, you sure got a purdy gun....
You are looking at the 1911, right?
Yata hey
Definitely did not mean it that strongly - my apologies to you, sir.This has gone too far.
the fight will be on. There will be no attempt to de-escalate the situation because the moment they try to put a hand on my sidearm it will be beyond de-escalation.Just curious on this one. As in like a public place regular citizen type deal.
I hope you sued--and filed every possible complaint you could and made every attempt you could at having him arrested and charged....N6ATF wrote:The guy grabbed me from behind with no probable cause or identifying himself and his intentions, he gotrough on me at the scene while I was not resisting, and later at the police station he got caught by a superiorpunching me in the stomach while I was seated. He tried to force me to blow into a portable breathalizer, I told him i got somethng he can blow while I grabbed my crotch to show him exactly what I meant!HankT wrote:Sounds like the brutality in the last sentence would cover it.Nutczak wrote:Why were the charges dropped, Nutczak?I have been charged with battery of a public servant once already (the charges were laterdropped) whensomeone idiot grabbed me from behind and surprised me. I pushed into this unknown person to knock them off-balance and then came around with my other arm and punched this person in the chest as hard as I possibly could.
Imagine the look of shock on my face when I saw a sheriff's deputy landing on his ass and heard the wind getting knocked out of him, then the sound of him trying to catch his breath while on his hands and knees wheezing! The rest of the night got real ugly, real fast after that incident. I stopped after my initial hit, backed up and put my hands on top of my head to show surrender. Then the SOB tackeled me and tried to beat me whern I was not resisting.
Who wants to effect an arrest--my concern would be making it clear that trying to take my sidearm was not the brightest move the person made.In California, a person resisting a strong arm robbery, penal code 211,(which is what a gun grab is...) can use any and all reasonable force necessary to resist and overcome the attacker and effect an arrest. This includes deadly force if necessary. If the attempted robbery is occurring on you or even a bystander, the use of force is very liberal in California, it is just the gun laws that stink. Now if you fatally injure the robber during an attack, nothing is going to happen to you. Shooting a fleeing felon is also still legal here if it is the only method you have to effect an arrest of the criminal.
Cite for allowable deadly force to effect a citizens arrest in your state please.suntzu,
I didn't say you had to effect an arrest. However the level of force the law allows to repel a gun grab(robbery) increases and then declines as the threat passes. In a arrest situation, the level of legal force allowed continues until the arrest is completed safely by the "victim".
So in the simplest of terms, you shoot the thief running away because you think he deserves it , your going to jail for murder. You shoot the thief running away while attempting to arrest him, justifiable homicide.
I don't mean that shooting anyone is to be done except to defend yourself or others, but if you do the words" I was in fear of my life and I was trying to arrest him", better make it into your vocabulary when the LEO's show up. Then let your attorney do the rest of the talking.
Good call. Grapeshot.oc4ever wrote:Cite for allowable deadly force to effect a citizens arrest in your state please.suntzu,
I didn't say you had to effect an arrest. However the level of force the law allows to repel a gun grab(robbery) increases and then declines as the threat passes. In a arrest situation, the level of legal force allowed continues until the arrest is completed safely by the "victim".
So in the simplest of terms, you shoot the thief running away because you think he deserves it , your going to jail for murder. You shoot the thief running away while attempting to arrest him, justifiable homicide.
I don't mean that shooting anyone is to be done except to defend yourself or others, but if you do the words" I was in fear of my life and I was trying to arrest him", better make it into your vocabulary when the LEO's show up. Then let your attorney do the rest of the talking.
(This is why everybody should show at least their home state in their profile.)
In Virginia, I think you well may be, what the prosecutor has for dinner.
Yata hey
Here is the problem I see with your theory:I don't mean that shooting anyone is to be done except to defend yourself or others, but if you do the words" I was in fear of my life and I was trying to arrest him", better make it into your vocabulary when the LEO's show up. Then let your attorney do the rest of the talking.