• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

If you haven't read this or sent this...u should have

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
How many LACs are the true first responders. In the St Louis area it was pass along in a TV news blip that first responders would only respond to "serious" auto accidents due to the snow and ice. So, "first responders" are not always the first to put their azzes in the wind. Your high horse is dead and I will not beat it any longer.

Correct we employ some of the same things. When its the middle of a snow storm and we have to use trucks to get there we only go to priority 1 calls. So if you bump into the back of a car and want a report sorry for you. If your car flips and your injured then we'll all come running. How is that a bad thing? It's no high horse its reality. Even in a snow storm its still fire that will extract you from a bad accident. But that is there job nothing more nothing less. That's all I was saying. He was implying broad inflammatory lies.

And I can't afford a horse its more of a poney so please don't beat it. If you do know of a good used horse dealer let me know. Low miles and frequent maintenance required.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Are you claiming you did not make the bad guys comment? You sir are the one lying, and you keep getting caught in it.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
How many LACs are the true first responders. In the St Louis area it was pass along in a TV news blip that first responders would only respond to "serious" auto accidents due to the snow and ice. So, "first responders" are not always the first to put their azzes in the wind. Your high horse is dead and I will not beat it any longer.

When I worked we responded to all legitimate calls. NOW we have a supposed officer who on one hand condones and supports illegal unconstitutional stops, but will not respond to legitimate calls. People like that should not even be allowed to wear a children's toy badge.

It is time that GOOD officers stand up, and put integrity back into law enforcement. Looks like "Protect and Serve" have been abandoned by many officers, and some have replaced it with "to punish and enslave".
 
Last edited:

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
When I worked we responded to all legitimate calls. NOW we have a supposed officer who on one hand condones and supports illegal unconstitutional stops, but will not respond to legitimate calls. People like that should not even be allowed to wear a children's toy badge.

It is time that GOOD officers stand up, and put integrity back into law enforcement. Looks like "Protect and Serve" have been abandoned by many officers, and some have replaced it with "to punish and enslave".

That's right. You should join back up and show us all how its done since obviously real law enforcement died the day you left the job. Show the young pups how to be a perfect cop. Then you post your experiences on here and we can all pat you on the back. Plus you'll have more ammo to bash everyone else who rides a pony while your on your stallion.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
That's right. You should join back up and show us all how its done since obviously real law enforcement died the day you left the job. Show the young pups how to be a perfect cop. Then you post your experiences on here and we can all pat you on the back. Plus you'll have more ammo to bash everyone else who rides a pony while your on your stallion.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

I thought you were done responding to me, ANOTHER lie?

I enjoy being a normal person, I don't need a badge to feel like a man, or get respect. I did my job, just like any other law abiding citizen in this country does.
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Correct we employ some of the same things. When its the middle of a snow storm and we have to use trucks to get there we only go to priority 1 calls. So if you bump into the back of a car and want a report sorry for you. If your car flips and your injured then we'll all come running. How is that a bad thing? It's no high horse its reality. Even in a snow storm its still fire that will extract you from a bad accident. But that is there job nothing more nothing less. That's all I was saying. He was implying broad inflammatory lies.

And I can't afford a horse its more of a poney so please don't beat it. If you do know of a good used horse dealer let me know. Low miles and frequent maintenance required.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
Ya know....err, no you do not. Official first responders are likely never ever the first to respond. The obviousness of this fact is now well past you when it flew over your head. First responders have the training and equipment to deal with a wide range of situations. But they are, almost without exception, never ever the first on the scene.

I don't have a single bad thing to say about any individual cop as long as they do their job. Obfuscating and deflecting places that cop on my mental ignore list out in the real world. Officer Allen regurgitated the same line that all cops who come here regurgitate. The citizen bears the burden to make the "consensual contact" pleasant for all parties. That right there is the bassackwards way to look at liberty and the respect for liberty. A nice cop will violate a citizen's rights in a heart beat, because his boss told him so. A cop deserves the respect he receives based on his demeanor and actions. Sadly, some cops.....no, all cops, will likely not challange their boss to enact policies that respect liberty and the law. If all cops did that then a new boss would be found that would respect liberty and the law.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Oh come off it. Really it gets old and I try my hardest to be the bigger man and just ignore you but some of the things cross the line. Listen in the 50s when you were a "cop" it wasn't anything like it is now.

For the record unless you can cite an exact officer that says that then your just talking out of your a**. Police and fire and ems put their a** in the wind everyday. Yes they choose to do it. Maybe they aren't mentally stable or smart enough to take a safe accounting desk job.

A BG vs an Leo? Correct officer safety is paramount and will be acted upon accordingly. This does cause problems no one is denying that.

A leos life vs a citizens life? Are you nuts? There isn't enough space to list things first responders (fire ems etc) do to help people while putting their a** on the line.

I hate to even engaged you on some things but really some thongs you say are so egregious. You somehow seem to have a mentality that when you did "the job" it was all glory and perfect and no bad guys. As soon as you left apparently all leos became bad and a bunch of wusses. It turns my stomach.



Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Before you rant you may want to check your stats, a lot more cops died in the 50's and there were a lot less cops so the ratio was a lot stronger than today.

The lie put forth that every traffic stop or detention is a potentially dangerous life threatening stop for the cop is twisted, because the reality is the "civilian" is more likely to encounter life threatening situation from the costumed state agent.

How many "civilians" are turned away from helping by the "first responders" ( a saying invented at the federal level, that saying disgusts me).

The problems with the LEA's is becoming more and more systemic, they are being militarized, they are being nationalized, they have little understanding of common law or constitutional law, they literally often get away with murder, (Ian Birk), they seem to believe in a top down government system, and the more the system goes that way the more it will attract "bad apples" and turn away good ones.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Primus, et al., first anybody's death, LE, service member, First responder, or construction worker working in an unsafe environment is a loss and burden on our society and it's economy.

that said, did a quick search on www and me thinks you should check out this website, http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html

executive summary for years 2003- 2012

total of 1540 officer deaths
30% or 457 officers died in auto accidents
37% or 564 died from being shot
while no total exists, there are individual stats by year showing of the 50% deaths (give or take) of the officers 'wearing body armor'.

Officer safety from possibly not engaging in unneeded High speed pursuits or wearing their seat belt seems a better educational concept to minimize officer deaths.

finally, 2013 preliminary officers deaths is also posted on this site and overall, firearm deaths are down from dec 12 to dec 13 to 28 verse 41 last year.
caveat, there may be a difference in how the compiler(s) of this data has categorized some officer's cause of death because 'other' causes has a 26% increase (six deaths).

relating to 2013 deaths quote Of the 17 firearms-related fatalities, seven officers were killed in ambush attacks—the most of any circumstance of fatal shootings in 2013. This is the second year in a row in which ambushes were the leading cause of deaths. During this same time period in 2012, four officers were shot and killed in ambushes. quote

now to put this into perspective:
OSHA reports their fatalities weekly and a composite and their combined report from 1 oct 12 to sept 30 13 shows 69 pages of 15 souls who died for a total of 1035 individuals who died. I know who cares but...
https://www.osha.gov/dep/fatcat/fy13_federal-state_summaries.pdf

when a LE dies in the line of duty (with all their equipment worn and in a highly controlled environment), everyone - union, Department, City, etc., circles around and the families automatically reap the $$ and continued health benefits paid to the family for years.

when someone dies on construction, farm accidents, etc., through no fault of their own, the insurance companies immediately step in analyzing who's fault was it, how can we mitigate $$$$ risk to us. screw the family that lost their wage earner etc. families have to resort on their attorney's to fight the battle in court and in the end the families get pennies on the dollar.

yes, it is an inequity in our society...but should it be?

so disarming me while OC'g seems a mute point since officer deaths by firearms is statistically down across the nation and only a third over the last decade have died by being shot. Last two years officers death by firearm has been done by ambush...

please do not go there by stating...see LE disarming OC'ers has reduced officer deaths over the last decade unless you have a verifiable cite specifically showing how the third died.

ipse

a total of 19K LE have died 1791
 
Last edited:

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
Oc..... can you please site a source that states that first responders are never first? On occasion rare occasion when me and my guys roll up a random person is helping out. Everyone else just drives on by. I'll be the first to admit that when I get a med call and its for a cut finger or a headache or a stomachs ache that I don't blue light it and fire usually beats me there. But to blanket say we're never first is a stretch so please cite if possible.

Solus- I agree with you 100% that le is not the most dangerous job remotely. I also agree that we sign up for so if we get whacked its on us. I give my son and wife a kiss before every shift and tell them I love them for that exact reason. Not a big deal at all.

But, le is the only job where u have to body armor because people are or will be trying to murder you. The only job you can and do get ambushed and killed or just assaulted. I don't recall cranes murdering laborers or toilets drowning plumbers maliciously.

Not implying its elite or higher or better. Its just different and completely unique. Even firefighters and Ems stand back when SHTF. But that's ok too because I give them boys props. I'd rather take on a guy with a gun (bad guy pointing not good guy ocing) then a burning building. Been in one and it was the dumbest thing I've ever done.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Oc..... can you please site a source that states that first responders are never first? On occasion rare occasion when me and my guys roll up a random person is helping out. Everyone else just drives on by. I'll be the first to admit that when I get a med call and its for a cut finger or a headache or a stomachs ache that I don't blue light it and fire usually beats me there. But to blanket say we're never first is a stretch so please cite if possible.

Solus- I agree with you 100% that le is not the most dangerous job remotely. I also agree that we sign up for so if we get whacked its on us. I give my son and wife a kiss before every shift and tell them I love them for that exact reason. Not a big deal at all.

But, le is the only job where u have to body armor because people are or will be trying to murder you. The only job you can and do get ambushed and killed or just assaulted. I don't recall cranes murdering laborers or toilets drowning plumbers maliciously.

Not implying its elite or higher or better. Its just different and completely unique. Even firefighters and Ems stand back when SHTF. But that's ok too because I give them boys props. I'd rather take on a guy with a gun (bad guy pointing not good guy ocing) then a burning building. Been in one and it was the dumbest thing I've ever done.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Duhhhh! If they are responding, unless reported by them, they are not the first on the scene. That is just common sense dude.
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
Duhhhh! If they are responding, unless reported by them, they are not the first on the scene. That is just common sense dude.

Sir/dude a lot of guys call stuff in from their house or while driving by or walking by and never stop. So literally no one will be there but the responding officers and the victim.

We just had a murder last week. Officers show up guy laid out no one else around. It was neighbor down the street ( a few) that called in shots fired. So again..... first on the scene....

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
Oc..... can you please site a source that states that first responders are never first? On occasion rare occasion when me and my guys roll up a random person is helping out. Everyone else just drives on by. I'll be the first to admit that when I get a med call and its for a cut finger or a headache or a stomachs ache that I don't blue light it and fire usually beats me there. But to blanket say we're never first is a stretch so please cite if possible.

Solus- I agree with you 100% that le is not the most dangerous job remotely. I also agree that we sign up for so if we get whacked its on us. I give my son and wife a kiss before every shift and tell them I love them for that exact reason. Not a big deal at all.

But, le is the only job where u have to body armor because people are or will be trying to murder you. The only job you can and do get ambushed and killed or just assaulted. I don't recall cranes murdering laborers or toilets drowning plumbers maliciously.

Not implying its elite or higher or better. Its just different and completely unique. Even firefighters and Ems stand back when SHTF. But that's ok too because I give them boys props. I'd rather take on a guy with a gun (bad guy pointing not good guy ocing) then a burning building. Been in one and it was the dumbest thing I've ever done.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
Quote what I wrote and I will respond. I did not make that contention.
 

solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
snip
But, le is the only job where u have to body armor because people are or will be trying to murder you. The only job you can and do get ambushed and killed or just assaulted. I don't recall cranes murdering laborers or toilets drowning plumbers maliciously.

Not implying its elite or higher or better. Its just different and completely unique. Even firefighters and Ems stand back when SHTF. But that's ok too because I give them boys props. I'd rather take on a guy with a gun (bad guy pointing not good guy ocing) then a burning building. Been in one and it was the dumbest thing I've ever done.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

you will forgive me but you went down a dead end on an icy street, crane accidents happen all the time!! one infamous example where cranes rained down killing three ppl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slEWQQ6TGr4 especially since the construction crew was told to shut it down by OSHA reps on the site but the super waited till they were walking away and started putting the roof piece in anyway!

http://www.klclutch.com/cranes/10-famous-crane-collapses/

and i am sorry but your job is not the only occupation where you have to wear body armor, not even close! men and women who serve in our armed forces endure more hazardous conditions as well as undue hardship(s) including getting way less pay than the average law enforcement professional. Last time you encountered car a bomber out of the blue?

sorry you just lost what little credibility you might have had with your elitist mentality and how unique your profession is by what you just expressed. I have several friends currently in combat zones who would love to personally hear how hazardous your job is and then take you out on patrol w/them.

ipse
 
Last edited:

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
you will forgive me but you went down a dead end on an icy street, crane accidents happen all the time!! one infamous example where cranes rained down killing three ppl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slEWQQ6TGr4 especially since the construction crew was told to shut it down by OSHA reps on the site but the super waited till they were walking away and started putting the roof piece in anyway!

http://www.klclutch.com/cranes/10-famous-crane-collapses/

and i am sorry but your job is not the only occupation where you have to wear body armor, not even close! men and women who serve in our armed forces endure more hazardous conditions as well as undue hardship(s) including getting way less pay than the average law enforcement professional. Last time you encountered car a bomber out of the blue?

sorry you just lost what little credibility you might have had with your elitist mentality and how unique your profession is by what you just expressed. I have several friends currently in combat zones who would love to personally hear how hazardous your job is and then take you out on patrol w/them.

ipse

Solus my intent was that the crane didn't MURDER the people. It was an accident. Big difference. That's why I said there are plenty of other more dangerous jobs. But its the only one where something or someone can actively plan to kill you and not eat you (throw that in for zoo keepers who get eaten by animals).

You actually make a good point.... the only two guys that wear body armor are le and military. Think about that...

And please don't attempt to lecture me on the military. Happen to have worn that body armor for over a year and a half overseas in these combat zones. I'm speaking from experience in both sides.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
Ya know....err, no you do not. Official first responders are likely never ever the first to respond. The obviousness of this fact is now well past you when it flew over your head. First responders have the training and equipment to deal with a wide range of situations. But they are, almost without exception, never ever the first on the scene.

I don't have a single bad thing to say about any individual cop as long as they do their job. Obfuscating and deflecting places that cop on my mental ignore list out in the real world. Officer Allen regurgitated the same line that all cops who come here regurgitate. The citizen bears the burden to make the "consensual contact" pleasant for all parties. That right there is the bassackwards way to look at liberty and the respect for liberty. A nice cop will violate a citizen's rights in a heart beat, because his boss told him so. A cop deserves the respect he receives based on his demeanor and actions. Sadly, some cops.....no, all cops, will likely not challange their boss to enact policies that respect liberty and the law. If all cops did that then a new boss would be found that would respect liberty and the law.

This is what asked for a cite for.. I understand you used "likely" in there and "almost without exception", but is that based on facts or just opinion?
 

LMTD

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
1,919
Location
, ,
LE and the Military are not the only ones to wear body armor, though they do likely buy the largest percentage.

Cranes may not kill people, but LE do and at a rate much greater than terrorism and we are talking INNOCENT people not the criminals.

While you are tooting your horn, note that LE does not even make the top ten list of deadly jobs.

The 10 Deadliest Jobs:

1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers

CITE: BLS data published in Forbes August report.

Now you can go on an Anti-LEO rant if you want, but when you start yappin about how much danger is involved and then learn it is more dangerous to be a trash man it has to sting eh?

Might as well run along now, it only gets worse from here on out.
 
Top