IMPORTANT: Please Read concerning police encounters

[Phssthpok]

Alright...now that you guys have my head a-spinning lets set up some scenarios:

1) I am walking down the street OC'ing minding my own business when a LEO pulls up to me and initiates a "conversation." I can legally do what?

Do anything you want. Talk to him, walk away, dance a soft-shoe, quote Shakespeare, or run around in circles flapping your arms and quacking like a duck if you like....so long as you are harming no one.

2) I am a passenger in a vehicle OCing when a LEO stops my friend for some sort of suspected moving violation. I am obligated to do what and legally I DONT have to do what?

Nothing and nothing. There is no requirement to notify in Washington. (caveat: If your sidearm is loaded and the officer notices you are carrying, you ARE legally obligated to produce your CPL upon demand)

3) I am walking in a city park (Yelm) that conspicuously states "No Firearms Allowed" while Ocing when a LEO stops me and says "Don't you see what the sign says? No firearms are allowed in the park!" I say and do what?

That's up to the individual to decide. I can no more give you accurate advice on that situation than I could if some hairy 350 lb. guy in a hot pink tu-tu and fairy wings ran up and tried to kiss you on the lips. Everybody has their own personal comfort level when it comes to confrontations (and make no mistake...the officer HAS just 'confronted' you).

First thing I would do is start my recorder (if it's not already running).

You have the (1st amendment)RIGHT to tell the officer to 'piss off' if you so choose since you are doing nothing illegal. It probably wouldn't be the best course of action though if you simply want to go about your personal affairs unmolested.
or
You could cite chapter and verse of the RCW's which state that the sign is invalid and unenforceable, then point out that if he chooses to proceed with enforcement that he himself would be committing a criminal act (or multiple criminal acts depending on what action he takes) making sure to point out that since it is well established and clearly settled law, he would not enjoy the privilege of 'qualified immunity' in any subsequent legal actions.
or
You could engage him in polite conversation and choose your course of action from there.
or
You could just ignore him.
or
Any combination of the above.

 

[Trigger Dr]

Sorry Officer, that sign

is in violation of the Wa. pre emption statute. I suggest you contact your supervisor before you continue.

 

[MKEgal]

... he reached in the car, unsnapped the retention strap and unholstered it and laid it on the roof of my car.

You did one of the same things wrong that I did a couple months ago -
keep the window rolled up so nobody can reach in!
To hand an officer your papers, you can have it down an inch or so.

As for setting it on the roof, he might have scratched the paint!

 

[joejoejoe]

If being detained for a civil infraction you are required to provide your name and address, and to sign the infraction. You are not required to provide an ID card. There is no law in Washington that requires you to have an ID on you (unless your driving a car).

I can't tell entirely, but it looks like you don't have to give I.D. even when driving....

RCW 46.61.020
Refusal to give information to or cooperate with officer — Penalty.


(1) It is unlawful for any person while operating or in charge of any vehicle to refuse when requested by a police officer to give his or her name and address and the name and address of the owner of such vehicle, or for such person to give a false name and address, and it is likewise unlawful for any such person to refuse or neglect to stop when signaled to stop by any police officer or to refuse upon demand of such police officer to produce his or her certificate of license registration of such vehicle, his or her insurance identification card, or his or her vehicle driver's license or to refuse to permit such officer to take any such license, card, or certificate for the purpose of examination thereof or to refuse to permit the examination of any equipment of such vehicle or the weighing of such vehicle or to refuse or neglect to produce the certificate of license registration of such vehicle, insurance card, or his or her vehicle driver's license when requested by any court. Any police officer shall on request produce evidence of his or her authorization as such.

(2) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

Not sure if it is saying it is unlawful to refuse to give it to an officer upon request AND/OR upon request of the court. Or is it saying ONLY upon request of court.

Followed up by

RCW 46.61.021
Duty to obey law enforcement officer — Authority of officer.


(1) Any person requested or signaled to stop by a law enforcement officer for a traffic infraction has a duty to stop.

(2) Whenever any person is stopped for a traffic infraction, the officer may detain that person for a reasonable period of time necessary to identify the person, check for outstanding warrants, check the status of the person's license, insurance identification card, and the vehicle's registration, and complete and issue a notice of traffic infraction.

(3) Any person requested to identify himself or herself to a law enforcement officer pursuant to an investigation of a traffic infraction has a duty to identify himself or herself and give his or her current address.

Anyone?

Joe~


EDIT: I think the ORs divide the requirements, making it so you are required to produce I.D. when driving. However, the state needs to learn grammar...

 

[gogodawgs]

Sorry Officer, that sign is in violation of the Wa. pre emption statute. I suggest you contact your supervisor before you continue.

This is excellent advice. I do however want to alert you that when you ask for a Sargent/Supervisor this will generally piss the officer off. Especially if you ask for the supervisors presence before any further contact continues. Most (not all) departments have a policy that when the Sargent is requested by a civilian they comply to the best of their ability. Sometimes that takes the Sgt. away from other pressing issues and sometimes it just ruffles feathers. I have used this technique many years ago to save a friends but and buy him time, it works but can delay your leaving in a fastidious manner.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

This is excellent advice. I do however want to alert you that when you ask for a Sargent/Supervisor this will generally piss the officer off. Especially if you ask for the supervisors presence before any further contact continues. Most (not all) departments have a policy that when the Sargent is requested by a civilian they comply to the best of their ability. Sometimes that takes the Sgt. away from other pressing issues and sometimes it just ruffles feathers. I have used this technique many years ago to save a friends but and buy him time, it works but can delay your leaving in a fastidious manner.

They are wasting your time....so waste theirs in making sure you go to the top.
LEA's work for us.....they getting irritated at a lawful request is no concern of mine.