ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
smoking357 wrote:
Me thinks your smoking something other than 357.
smoking357 wrote:
Me thinks your smoking something other than 357.
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Is America Dead?
- Thread starter smoking357
- Start date
TipsyMcStagger
Banned
imported post
TheApostle wrote:
TheApostle wrote:
trollsuntzu wrote:
he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her... There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her...
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
Edited for ease of pointing out some more of the obscenely ridiculous points...
OC spray can cause severe respiratory problems. It can also kill someone if they are not monitored for breathing problems and then improperly positioned after exposure.
Tasers kill? Evidence?
As for a subject armed with a knife actively in hand. Tennessee vs. Gardner (1985) permits the usage of deadly force for the protection of the officer's life and others. Graham vs. Connor (1989) applies the reasonable officer standard to all uses of force. It is reasonable that a person armed with a deadly weapon (and has that very weapon) may be slammed to the ground. To expect an officer to get in hand to hand combat with anybody armed with a knife is both ignorant and hypocritical.
I am doubtful that anyone when presented with the threat of a knife is going to be moved by the spirit of Chuck Norris.
How about the anti-police people just say that they do not like the police and call it a day?
ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
suntzu wrote:
Holding bad cops accountable is a good thing IMHO. If they violate someone's rights, and harass people, then they should be held accountable. However, that is not the case here. This officer showed restraint, as I pointed out in my initial post.
Of course it's a lot easier to bash cops at anything that even so much as looks like a good chance to do it (regardless of how justified their action). It's an extreme point of view, and it sounds a lot like the extremists who think a SD shooting should involve the perp being shot in the leg. Nothing but a bunch of emotional, knee jerk reaction behind an "anti" agenda.
Look, I despise bad cops as much as just about anyone. I think they are a stain on the officers who do care about the citizenry, and take their oath seriously. When the step on a citizen's rights, I am happy when I see them being sued for so much money that no other officer want's to follow in their footsteps. However, that isn't because of any hatred or animosity towards a specific individual (even though they may deserve it, it's because I want an example made that discourages it from happening again. I believe LEO should be held to a much higher standard than others, and when they abuse their power, they should be treated harsher than any criminal. I believe it must be this way since they are untrusted with so much power and authority over their fellow citizens. That just didn't happen here. That just didn't happen here! That female officer tried to take the knife out of the woman's hand before escalating it due to the woman's resistance. Elderly lady or not, she is an Alzheimer's patient, and that makes her dangerous regardless of age or stature. I think some of the people here are so intent on finding a reason to bash cops that they overlook some of the flaws in their argument, and as a result they don't realize how extreme they come off as.
suntzu wrote:
You must have watched a different video. The officer was female, and used the gentlest method to subdue the woman, and she most certainly did not "slam" the woman to the ground.chiefjason wrote:OK, I'll play along. Woman with a knife, likely uncomplient. What are your suggestions? Tazer, pepper spray, planed ignoring? Have you ever taken anyone down in order to restrain them? It's just not pretty and you do it the way your trained. Yeah she's 84, but she controlled the knife and took her to the ground. If she was able to have a conversation with the LEO I'm sure it turns out different. These folks need to go home at night just like the rest of us. And FWIW I don't buy the idea that they sign that away because of their job. It definitely makes it harder to go home sometimes, but they have no less a right to. And if someone stands in the way with a weapon, then sometimes they get hurt. What will you do if someone comes at you with a knife. Talk them down?
she is 84 years old....and suffering from Alzheimer disease which is a wasting disease of the brain, and which will, if she lives long enough, almost certainly cause her death by itself...
so instead of using the least violent means of disarming an 84 year old little woman who was about half the weight of a male officer..he grabs her and uses a type of judo maneuver to slam her into the ground and causes her to have a head injury...he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her, a gun would certainly have done so... at his height, and the fact he was 30 years her junior, and probably out weighed her by 100lbs, and the fact that men are by far stronger physically than women--and especially elderly women....this "officer" slams her into the ground...
and this was not some mad dog female serial killer--this was an 84yr old little lady. she did not deserve to be treated like that. There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her.
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
Holding bad cops accountable is a good thing IMHO. If they violate someone's rights, and harass people, then they should be held accountable. However, that is not the case here. This officer showed restraint, as I pointed out in my initial post.
Of course it's a lot easier to bash cops at anything that even so much as looks like a good chance to do it (regardless of how justified their action). It's an extreme point of view, and it sounds a lot like the extremists who think a SD shooting should involve the perp being shot in the leg. Nothing but a bunch of emotional, knee jerk reaction behind an "anti" agenda.
Look, I despise bad cops as much as just about anyone. I think they are a stain on the officers who do care about the citizenry, and take their oath seriously. When the step on a citizen's rights, I am happy when I see them being sued for so much money that no other officer want's to follow in their footsteps. However, that isn't because of any hatred or animosity towards a specific individual (even though they may deserve it, it's because I want an example made that discourages it from happening again. I believe LEO should be held to a much higher standard than others, and when they abuse their power, they should be treated harsher than any criminal. I believe it must be this way since they are untrusted with so much power and authority over their fellow citizens. That just didn't happen here. That just didn't happen here! That female officer tried to take the knife out of the woman's hand before escalating it due to the woman's resistance. Elderly lady or not, she is an Alzheimer's patient, and that makes her dangerous regardless of age or stature. I think some of the people here are so intent on finding a reason to bash cops that they overlook some of the flaws in their argument, and as a result they don't realize how extreme they come off as.
ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
o->i wrote:
o->i wrote:
Watch out for the rabbit hole Alice.TheApostle wrote:trollsuntzu wrote:
he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her... There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her...
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
Edited for ease of pointing out some more of the obscenely ridiculous points...
OC spray can cause severe respiratory problems. It can also kill someone if they are not monitored for breathing problems and then improperly positioned after exposure.
Tasers kill? Evidence?
As for a subject armed with a knife actively in hand. Tennessee vs. Gardner (1985) permits the usage of deadly force for the protection of the officer's life and others. Graham vs. Connor (1989) applies the reasonable officer standard to all uses of force. It is reasonable that a person armed with a deadly weapon (and has that very weapon) may be slammed to the ground. To expect an officer to get in hand to hand combat with anybody armed with a knife is both ignorant and hypocritical.
I am doubtful that anyone when presented with the threat of a knife is going to be moved by the spirit of Chuck Norris.
How about the anti-police people just say that they do not like the police and call it a day?
smoking357
Banned
imported post
TheApostle wrote:
TheApostle wrote:
Any honesty we may have presumed you to have is permanently gone.Tasers kill? Evidence?
smoking357
Banned
imported post
ghostrider wrote:
ghostrider wrote:
I now see how men can load people onto boxcars.You must have watched a different video. The officer was female, and used the gentlest method to subdue the woman, and she most certainly did not "slam" the woman to the ground.
ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
smoking357 wrote:
The cop haters can't get their facts straight, and demonstrate a low knowledge level of physical conflict, and fall back on screaming nazi, or some other such nonsense.
If you really think the officer was a male, then I don't know what to say to you.
It's really no surprise to me that people would lack experience with any kind of martial sport or art have a tendency to be shocked at how physical it actually is.
Your coming across as someone who just doesn't know what they are talking about. They wern't that rough with her. And calling a "trip" a "slam" is inaccurate, and indicates either duplicity, or a lack of knowledge and familiarity.
Of course, I suppose "hateful diatribe" is easier than understanding that does not support one's agenda.
smoking357 wrote:
Wow! just, Wow!ghostrider wrote:I now see how men can load people onto boxcars.You must have watched a different video. The officer was female, and used the gentlest method to subdue the woman, and she most certainly did not "slam" the woman to the ground.
The cop haters can't get their facts straight, and demonstrate a low knowledge level of physical conflict, and fall back on screaming nazi, or some other such nonsense.
If you really think the officer was a male, then I don't know what to say to you.
It's really no surprise to me that people would lack experience with any kind of martial sport or art have a tendency to be shocked at how physical it actually is.
Your coming across as someone who just doesn't know what they are talking about. They wern't that rough with her. And calling a "trip" a "slam" is inaccurate, and indicates either duplicity, or a lack of knowledge and familiarity.
Of course, I suppose "hateful diatribe" is easier than understanding that does not support one's agenda.
smoking357
Banned
imported post
ghostrider wrote:
I know why anti-Liberty people espouse hatred, but even I am amazed at the more brazen attempts to lie.
This is one of the more egregious examples of a pro-state hate crowd being so obviously wrong and just flat lying about what everyone can plainly see.
ghostrider wrote:
Sorry, pal, your freedom-hating campaign has reached its end. You can try to lie, spin and propound hatred, but your hysterical screed has few friends here.Wow! just, Wow!
The cop haters can't get their facts straight, and demonstrate a low knowledge level of physical conflict, and fall back on screaming nazi, or some other such nonsense.
I know why anti-Liberty people espouse hatred, but even I am amazed at the more brazen attempts to lie.
This is one of the more egregious examples of a pro-state hate crowd being so obviously wrong and just flat lying about what everyone can plainly see.
TheApostle
Regular Member
imported post
o->i wrote:
Great debate technique. If you are representing the freedom movement, we shall not be free for much longer!
o->i wrote:
TheApostle wrote:trollsuntzu wrote:
he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her... There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her...
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
Edited for ease of pointing out some more of the obscenely ridiculous points...
OC spray can cause severe respiratory problems. It can also kill someone if they are not monitored for breathing problems and then improperly positioned after exposure.
Tasers kill? Evidence?
As for a subject armed with a knife actively in hand. Tennessee vs. Gardner (1985) permits the usage of deadly force for the protection of the officer's life and others. Graham vs. Connor (1989) applies the reasonable officer standard to all uses of force. It is reasonable that a person armed with a deadly weapon (and has that very weapon) may be slammed to the ground. To expect an officer to get in hand to hand combat with anybody armed with a knife is both ignorant and hypocritical.
I am doubtful that anyone when presented with the threat of a knife is going to be moved by the spirit of Chuck Norris.
How about the anti-police people just say that they do not like the police and call it a day?
Great debate technique. If you are representing the freedom movement, we shall not be free for much longer!
TheApostle
Regular Member
imported post
smoking357 wrote:
A request for evidence is now dishonesty? At least I know either 1) you are blind or high 2) patently dishonest to suggest the officer doing the slamming is a male.
I do enjoy your theory based on the front page story of the local newspaper, personal dislike of electricity, and the scary name of "taser".
This board use to be quite reputable for the debate on controversial topics. But users like o->i and smoking357 with their ranting and raving over a mentally ill's right to brandish a steak knife wherever shows how far this place has really gone.
smoking357 wrote:
TheApostle wrote:Any honesty we may have presumed you to have is permanently gone.Tasers kill? Evidence?
A request for evidence is now dishonesty? At least I know either 1) you are blind or high 2) patently dishonest to suggest the officer doing the slamming is a male.
I do enjoy your theory based on the front page story of the local newspaper, personal dislike of electricity, and the scary name of "taser".
This board use to be quite reputable for the debate on controversial topics. But users like o->i and smoking357 with their ranting and raving over a mentally ill's right to brandish a steak knife wherever shows how far this place has really gone.
camsoup
Regular Member
imported post
ghostrider wrote:
From what I saw, there was nothing gentle about how she put the woman on the ground.
ghostrider wrote:
Maybe your the one who watched a different video.....how else would you describe what the officer did while taking the lady down? She did slam the women to the ground, the old lady's head bounces of the parking lot, and she is later bleeding from the head wound.suntzu wrote:chiefjason wrote:OK, I'll play along. Woman with a knife, likely uncomplient. What are your suggestions? Tazer, pepper spray, planed ignoring? Have you ever taken anyone down in order to restrain them? It's just not pretty and you do it the way your trained. Yeah she's 84, but she controlled the knife and took her to the ground. If she was able to have a conversation with the LEO I'm sure it turns out different. These folks need to go home at night just like the rest of us. And FWIW I don't buy the idea that they sign that away because of their job. It definitely makes it harder to go home sometimes, but they have no less a right to. And if someone stands in the way with a weapon, then sometimes they get hurt. What will you do if someone comes at you with a knife. Talk them down?
she is 84 years old....and suffering from Alzheimer disease which is a wasting disease of the brain, and which will, if she lives long enough, almost certainly cause her death by itself...
so instead of using the least violent means of disarming an 84 year old little woman who was about half the weight of a male officer..he grabs her and uses a type of judo maneuver to slam her into the ground and causes her to have a head injury...he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her, a gun would certainly have done so... at his height, and the fact he was 30 years her junior, and probably out weighed her by 100lbs, and the fact that men are by far stronger physically than women--and especially elderly women....this "officer" slams her into the ground...
and this was not some mad dog female serial killer--this was an 84yr old little lady. she did not deserve to be treated like that. There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her.
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
You must have watched a different video. The officer was female, and used the gentlest method to subdue the woman, and she most certainly did not "slam" the woman to the ground.
From what I saw, there was nothing gentle about how she put the woman on the ground.
ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
smoking357 wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
Prove what you just said.
Where is the "lie", or "spin", or "propound hatred". As for hysterics, I'm not the one screaming "nazi" , and comparing an officer (who didn't "slam" the woman) to Charles Manson. Prove that also.
smoking357 wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
If that officer's actions were so bad, what would you have done differently (other than scream "Nazi, Manson murderer!")? Seriously, you think they did so wrong, how do you think they could have handled it better if you were the officer responding to the call?
This time, try some critical thinking instead of just launching hysterical diatribe and personal attacks.
smoking357 wrote:
LOL. Where are you getting all this stuff from.ghostrider wrote:Sorry, pal, your freedom-hating campaign has reached its end. You can try to lie, spin and propound hatred, but your hysterical screed has few friends here.Wow! just, Wow!
The cop haters can't get their facts straight, and demonstrate a low knowledge level of physical conflict, and fall back on screaming nazi, or some other such nonsense.
I know why anti-Liberty people espouse hatred, but even I am amazed at the more brazen attempts to lie.
This is one of the more egregious examples of a pro-state hate crowd being so obviously wrong and just flat lying about what everyone can plainly see.
smoking357 wrote:
No proof of any "freedom-hating campaign" whatsoever. Just hysterical rhetoric. Point out where I've said anything that even resembles "Freedom-hating".Sorry, pal, your freedom-hating campaign has reached its end.
smoking357 wrote:
You accuse me of these things, while this is all you do!You can try to lie, spin and propound hatred, but your hysterical screed has few friends here.
Prove what you just said.
Where is the "lie", or "spin", or "propound hatred". As for hysterics, I'm not the one screaming "nazi" , and comparing an officer (who didn't "slam" the woman) to Charles Manson. Prove that also.
smoking357 wrote:
Again. Proof, please.I know why anti-Liberty people espouse hatred, but even I am amazed at the more brazen attempts to lie.
smoking357 wrote:
Again. Proof please. ROFLOL. It's just so funny that someone would accuse me of being pro-state and hateful, when they are calling an officer abusive for disarming an elderly mental patient who is brandishing a knife.This is one of the more egregious examples of a pro-state hate crowd being so obviously wrong and just flat lying about what everyone can plainly see.
If that officer's actions were so bad, what would you have done differently (other than scream "Nazi, Manson murderer!")? Seriously, you think they did so wrong, how do you think they could have handled it better if you were the officer responding to the call?
This time, try some critical thinking instead of just launching hysterical diatribe and personal attacks.
ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
camsoup wrote:
Hip toss? Belly to back suplex?
Do you even know?
What would have been a more gentle way of subduing the woman? Or, are you suggesting that they should have just ignored her? I have thought these things through, and that's why I think the officer is justified. However, if someone can provide a better suggestion on how they should have handled it, then I'd like to hear it. So far it's just been a cop-bash, with phrases like "nazi", and "Charles Manson". There hasn't been any rational discorse by the anti-cop crowd here, just personal attacks, which is nothing more than hysterics. Please, please, please, come up with something better.
I understand outrage at police misbehavior, but I think you people are picking the wrong battle here, and as a result are being drawn in by emotion (understandable to anyone who loves their grandmother).
When people just attack the officer by calling her a thug, they come off as irrational. Saying that she shouldn't have done what she did is no different. Providing legitimate alternatives makes the argument reasoned.
It's very clear in this thread who is engaging in personal attacks, as opposed to those who is trying to have a rational conversation.
camsoup wrote:
Fine. Prove it. Exactly HOW did she "slam" that poor woman?ghostrider wrote:Maybe your the one who watched a different video.....how else would you describe what the officer did while taking the lady down? She did slam the women to the ground, the old lady's head bounces of the parking lot, and she is later bleeding from the head wound.suntzu wrote:chiefjason wrote:OK, I'll play along. Woman with a knife, likely uncomplient. What are your suggestions? Tazer, pepper spray, planed ignoring? Have you ever taken anyone down in order to restrain them? It's just not pretty and you do it the way your trained. Yeah she's 84, but she controlled the knife and took her to the ground. If she was able to have a conversation with the LEO I'm sure it turns out different. These folks need to go home at night just like the rest of us. And FWIW I don't buy the idea that they sign that away because of their job. It definitely makes it harder to go home sometimes, but they have no less a right to. And if someone stands in the way with a weapon, then sometimes they get hurt. What will you do if someone comes at you with a knife. Talk them down?
she is 84 years old....and suffering from Alzheimer disease which is a wasting disease of the brain, and which will, if she lives long enough, almost certainly cause her death by itself...
so instead of using the least violent means of disarming an 84 year old little woman who was about half the weight of a male officer..he grabs her and uses a type of judo maneuver to slam her into the ground and causes her to have a head injury...he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her, a gun would certainly have done so... at his height, and the fact he was 30 years her junior, and probably out weighed her by 100lbs, and the fact that men are by far stronger physically than women--and especially elderly women....this "officer" slams her into the ground...
and this was not some mad dog female serial killer--this was an 84yr old little lady. she did not deserve to be treated like that. There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her.
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
You must have watched a different video. The officer was female, and used the gentlest method to subdue the woman, and she most certainly did not "slam" the woman to the ground.
From what I saw, there was nothing gentle about how she put the woman on the ground.
Hip toss? Belly to back suplex?
Do you even know?
What would have been a more gentle way of subduing the woman? Or, are you suggesting that they should have just ignored her? I have thought these things through, and that's why I think the officer is justified. However, if someone can provide a better suggestion on how they should have handled it, then I'd like to hear it. So far it's just been a cop-bash, with phrases like "nazi", and "Charles Manson". There hasn't been any rational discorse by the anti-cop crowd here, just personal attacks, which is nothing more than hysterics. Please, please, please, come up with something better.
I understand outrage at police misbehavior, but I think you people are picking the wrong battle here, and as a result are being drawn in by emotion (understandable to anyone who loves their grandmother).
When people just attack the officer by calling her a thug, they come off as irrational. Saying that she shouldn't have done what she did is no different. Providing legitimate alternatives makes the argument reasoned.
It's very clear in this thread who is engaging in personal attacks, as opposed to those who is trying to have a rational conversation.
smoking357
Banned
imported post
ghostrider wrote:
ghostrider wrote:
There was blood coming from her head! Quit being mendacious. You've gone too far. Stop it.camsoup wrote:Fine. Prove it. Exactly HOW did she "slam" that poor woman?ghostrider wrote:Maybe your the one who watched a different video.....how else would you describe what the officer did while taking the lady down? She did slam the women to the ground, the old lady's head bounces of the parking lot, and she is later bleeding from the head wound.suntzu wrote:chiefjason wrote:OK, I'll play along. Woman with a knife, likely uncomplient. What are your suggestions? Tazer, pepper spray, planed ignoring? Have you ever taken anyone down in order to restrain them? It's just not pretty and you do it the way your trained. Yeah she's 84, but she controlled the knife and took her to the ground. If she was able to have a conversation with the LEO I'm sure it turns out different. These folks need to go home at night just like the rest of us. And FWIW I don't buy the idea that they sign that away because of their job. It definitely makes it harder to go home sometimes, but they have no less a right to. And if someone stands in the way with a weapon, then sometimes they get hurt. What will you do if someone comes at you with a knife. Talk them down?
she is 84 years old....and suffering from Alzheimer disease which is a wasting disease of the brain, and which will, if she lives long enough, almost certainly cause her death by itself...
so instead of using the least violent means of disarming an 84 year old little woman who was about half the weight of a male officer..he grabs her and uses a type of judo maneuver to slam her into the ground and causes her to have a head injury...he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her, a gun would certainly have done so... at his height, and the fact he was 30 years her junior, and probably out weighed her by 100lbs, and the fact that men are by far stronger physically than women--and especially elderly women....this "officer" slams her into the ground...
and this was not some mad dog female serial killer--this was an 84yr old little lady. she did not deserve to be treated like that. There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her.
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
You must have watched a different video. The officer was female, and used the gentlest method to subdue the woman, and she most certainly did not "slam" the woman to the ground.
From what I saw, there was nothing gentle about how she put the woman on the ground.
ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
smoking357 wrote:
smoking357 wrote:
Just what I suspected. You can't.ghostrider wrote:There was blood coming from her head! Quit being mendacious. You've gone too far. Stop it.camsoup wrote:Fine. Prove it. Exactly HOW did she "slam" that poor woman?ghostrider wrote:Maybe your the one who watched a different video.....how else would you describe what the officer did while taking the lady down? She did slam the women to the ground, the old lady's head bounces of the parking lot, and she is later bleeding from the head wound.suntzu wrote:chiefjason wrote:OK, I'll play along. Woman with a knife, likely uncomplient. What are your suggestions? Tazer, pepper spray, planed ignoring? Have you ever taken anyone down in order to restrain them? It's just not pretty and you do it the way your trained. Yeah she's 84, but she controlled the knife and took her to the ground. If she was able to have a conversation with the LEO I'm sure it turns out different. These folks need to go home at night just like the rest of us. And FWIW I don't buy the idea that they sign that away because of their job. It definitely makes it harder to go home sometimes, but they have no less a right to. And if someone stands in the way with a weapon, then sometimes they get hurt. What will you do if someone comes at you with a knife. Talk them down?
she is 84 years old....and suffering from Alzheimer disease which is a wasting disease of the brain, and which will, if she lives long enough, almost certainly cause her death by itself...
so instead of using the least violent means of disarming an 84 year old little woman who was about half the weight of a male officer..he grabs her and uses a type of judo maneuver to slam her into the ground and causes her to have a head injury...he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her, a gun would certainly have done so... at his height, and the fact he was 30 years her junior, and probably out weighed her by 100lbs, and the fact that men are by far stronger physically than women--and especially elderly women....this "officer" slams her into the ground...
and this was not some mad dog female serial killer--this was an 84yr old little lady. she did not deserve to be treated like that. There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her.
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
You must have watched a different video. The officer was female, and used the gentlest method to subdue the woman, and she most certainly did not "slam" the woman to the ground.
From what I saw, there was nothing gentle about how she put the woman on the ground.
smoking357
Banned
imported post
ghostrider wrote:
Stop lying. Now.
ghostrider wrote:
More mendacity. You are the only person in this thread who has used the word "Nazi," and the reference to Manson was applied against you and your preposterous and mendacious justification.So far it's just been a cop-bash, with phrases like "nazi", and "Charles Manson".
Stop lying. Now.
suntzu
Regular Member
imported post
TheApostle wrote:
2. Tasers do kill--there have been several deaths related to taser usage. Taser of course will not admit that its devices kill--because to do so opens them up to bankrupting lawsuits...so please let's skip over the politically correct bull*&^%.
3. I don't dispute the reasonable use of force..but body slamming an 84 year old little woman into the ground so hard her head bounces is asinine.
4. he could have maced her--he would not need to fill her face full, just spray her with enough to cause her to drop the knife--it is easy enough to wash out of the face and less risk of a brain injury from your head hitting the pavement.
5. You say it is hypocritical to expect the police to get into a hand to hand fight--and yet that is exactly what this officer did...this officer did engage in hand to hand fighting with that little woman...
6. How about the police act like civilized human beings for a change and they might get treated like it.
TheApostle wrote:
1. You say OC spray can cause respiratory distress and kill--and it can..but so can a brain injury resulting from your head bouncing off of the ground.....suntzu wrote:
he could have maced her and took the weapon from her and then washed the mace from her eyes...tasering her at her age might have killed her... There were numerous ways he could have disarmed her that would not have caused injury to her...
I agree--that officer should be in jail.
Edited for ease of pointing out some more of the obscenely ridiculous points...
OC spray can cause severe respiratory problems. It can also kill someone if they are not monitored for breathing problems and then improperly positioned after exposure.
Tasers kill? Evidence?
As for a subject armed with a knife actively in hand. Tennessee vs. Gardner (1985) permits the usage of deadly force for the protection of the officer's life and others. Graham vs. Connor (1989) applies the reasonable officer standard to all uses of force. It is reasonable that a person armed with a deadly weapon (and has that very weapon) may be slammed to the ground. To expect an officer to get in hand to hand combat with anybody armed with a knife is both ignorant and hypocritical.
I am doubtful that anyone when presented with the threat of a knife is going to be moved by the spirit of Chuck Norris.
How about the anti-police people just say that they do not like the police and call it a day?
2. Tasers do kill--there have been several deaths related to taser usage. Taser of course will not admit that its devices kill--because to do so opens them up to bankrupting lawsuits...so please let's skip over the politically correct bull*&^%.
3. I don't dispute the reasonable use of force..but body slamming an 84 year old little woman into the ground so hard her head bounces is asinine.
4. he could have maced her--he would not need to fill her face full, just spray her with enough to cause her to drop the knife--it is easy enough to wash out of the face and less risk of a brain injury from your head hitting the pavement.
5. You say it is hypocritical to expect the police to get into a hand to hand fight--and yet that is exactly what this officer did...this officer did engage in hand to hand fighting with that little woman...
6. How about the police act like civilized human beings for a change and they might get treated like it.
suntzu
Regular Member
imported post
Gordie wrote:
I also know how strong elderly people can be, so that is a non issue--but I also know how to get people to work with me, without having to beat them down into submission.
I also agree--the daughter is at fault here--but the daughter was not the one who threw an 84 year old little woman onto the ground resulting in her head being injured from the force of the impact--that fault lays squarely with the police for using excessive force.
Gordie wrote:
first, I do know what alzheimers disease does to a person. I know it totally destroys who you are as a person, and that a person afflicted by it will, if they live long enough die from it.Before you judge someone who is forced to deal with anAlzheimer's patient, maybe you should talk to multiplepeople who deal with it on a regular basis. Victims of this disease are very unpredictable and can be very dangerous. It is not uncommon for it to take several people to restrain a single "frail" old Alzheimer's patient. If you believe that it is so easy, go to a nursing home and volunteer to help these people for one day a week, after only a month, your view will most likely change.
This disease is one of the most insidious, horrible things that can ever happen to a person. It totally destroys who they are. While we should all have compassion for the victims of this disease, we must also realize that they are sometimesa danger to themselves and to others.
If anyone should be prosecuted, it is the daughter who left this poor woman alone in a parking lot.
I also know how strong elderly people can be, so that is a non issue--but I also know how to get people to work with me, without having to beat them down into submission.
I also agree--the daughter is at fault here--but the daughter was not the one who threw an 84 year old little woman onto the ground resulting in her head being injured from the force of the impact--that fault lays squarely with the police for using excessive force.
suntzu
Regular Member
imported post
ghostrider wrote:
contrary to popular belief--that is not a gentle move. It was not a hip toss or a belly to back suplex--it appears to be a wrist lock, followed by a spin and a trip of the legs--it is a judo/jiujitsu maneuver.
that is what the video looks like anyway--considering how shaky it is.
ghostrider wrote:
The officer grabbed the wrist of the woman from what I saw on the video and essentially tripped her by using a wrist lock and spinning--the force of the spin, coupled with the trip and the wrist lock caused the little 84 year old lady to fall and hit her head on the pavement.Fine. Prove it. Exactly HOW did she "slam" that poor woman?
Hip toss? Belly to back suplex?
Do you even know?
contrary to popular belief--that is not a gentle move. It was not a hip toss or a belly to back suplex--it appears to be a wrist lock, followed by a spin and a trip of the legs--it is a judo/jiujitsu maneuver.
that is what the video looks like anyway--considering how shaky it is.
camsoup
Regular Member
imported post
ghostrider wrote:
Who the hell cares if she used a hip toss or a suplex.... if it was your mother or father would you still feel the officer was justified in her actions?
That officer engaged the old woman for what, a total of about 5 secs before throwing her down. Some crazed lunatic with a gun barricades himself in a room and the swat team will stand by for hours trying to talk him down.
Yet the officer chooses to slam an 84 year old woman to the ground after talking to her for a total of about 5 secs? I understand she was trying to control the knife, but why not control the knife and keep the old lady on her feet, sure busting her head open on the pavement helped the officer gain control of the knife. But was it really necessary??
ghostrider wrote:
What more proof do you need other than the video itself, she throws the woman to the ground, the womens head bounces off the pavement and she starts bleeding from the head wound. If I was to throw you off balance and to the ground and your head bounces off the pavement would you say I did it gently?Fine. Prove it. Exactly HOW did she "slam" that poor woman?
Hip toss? Belly to back suplex?
Do you even know?
What would have been a more gentle way of subduing the woman? Or, are you suggesting that they should have just ignored her? I have thought these things through, and that's why I think the officer is justified. However, if someone can provide a better suggestion on how they should have handled it, then I'd like to hear it. So far it's just been a cop-bash, with phrases like "nazi", and "Charles Manson". There hasn't been any rational discorse by the anti-cop crowd here, just personal attacks, which is nothing more than hysterics. Please, please, please, come up with something better.
I understand outrage at police misbehavior, but I think you people are picking the wrong battle here, and as a result are being drawn in by emotion (understandable to anyone who loves their grandmother).
When people just attack the officer by calling her a thug, they come off as irrational. Saying that she shouldn't have done what she did is no different. Providing legitimate alternatives makes the argument reasoned.
It's very clear in this thread who is engaging in personal attacks, as opposed to those who is trying to have a rational conversation.
Who the hell cares if she used a hip toss or a suplex.... if it was your mother or father would you still feel the officer was justified in her actions?
That officer engaged the old woman for what, a total of about 5 secs before throwing her down. Some crazed lunatic with a gun barricades himself in a room and the swat team will stand by for hours trying to talk him down.
Yet the officer chooses to slam an 84 year old woman to the ground after talking to her for a total of about 5 secs? I understand she was trying to control the knife, but why not control the knife and keep the old lady on her feet, sure busting her head open on the pavement helped the officer gain control of the knife. But was it really necessary??