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Just got told by a patron at Starbucks that I should leave...while in uniform.

Dave_pro2a

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
, ,
MORE GENERALLY ...

1. I don't own a gun. I am not a hunter or sport shooter, and I feel no need to have one for personal protection.

2. I am a fairly recent mind-switcher from pro-gun control to mostly anti-gun control. Those are shorthand phrases, but the point is that I'm one of those rare birds: an independent kinda guy who actually re-thought this issue after the Connecticut massacre and quite unexpectedly to himself, winds up being against most gun control proposals he's heard of. In particular, I will be voting against background checks for private sales in WA State this fall.

3. I am 1,000% in favor of the so-called "castle doctrine" and so-called "stand your ground." These are bedrock for me, and have been for a long time. But I hadn't thought about it in much detail until after Connecticut. The Zimmerman case had an impact on my thinking, and so did a legislative proposal here in WA State that would've imposed a "duty to retreat" on homeowners whose houses were invaded. Even though I don't own a firearm, I cannot possibly overstate how much that one proposal offended me. I figure I don't have to articulate it any further here because I'd be preaching to a choir.

4. I am theoretically o.k. with magazine capacity limits. Not sure what the number ought to be, and it would have to be carefully crafted so as not to endorse or enable confiscation. Even though I am not a gun owner, what's happening in N.Y. and CA is genuinely worrisome to me as a citizen.

5. I will vote against background checks in WA State for three reasons. First is a general lack of trust (see #3 and the final sentence of #4 above). Second is that the details strike me as vague, overbroad, and lack sunset or appeal provisions. Third is that the specific form of the proposal appears to wind up being a de facto gun registration scheme, which I am very deeply skeptical of.

6. On the broad subject of whether people "should" open carry, I refer everyoneto the Book of Ecclesiastes, chapter 3. Beyond that, I would generally say that, in most places, especially in the city where I spend most of my time, I prefer than firearms be concealed. Not only would I not wish to be immediately and continually reminded of the possibility (no matter how remote) of a shootout, but the more commonplace and familiar guns become, the greater the chance that they wind up in the wrong hands. Also, to the extent that open carry becomes commonplace, it would become casual and even merely "fashionable" to some, decreasing the level of seriousness and "situational awareness" and increasing the chances of tragic outcomes. I don't think it's in the public interest to have guns become part of the daily "vocabulary" of our public life, figuratively speaking, at least not in the big cities. In more rural areas, maybe.

7. Gun control is the archetypal tribal issue in America. As a result, the purer one's views the more likely they are to be accompanied by a stack of sanctimony thick enough to cut with a chain saw. Each side sees the other's self-righteousness but rarely their own. Along those lines, I'd suggest that those who disagree with what I've written try to at least affect civility. In response, I will be taking you seriously, so there'll be no need to shout.

So there you are. Too long of a post, I'm sure.

p.s.: Wow, the Seahawks are really kickin' ass here, huh? :)

Ahhh, you're the environmentalist posting on the hunting forum.

I'm guessing you are a sophomore at a liberal arts college.
 

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
I can say that I am 99% sure OC deters crime. Criminals are cowards, and there are two instances where it appeared to me that rough looking characters saw my firearm and then turned and walked the other way. In one instance I read on the SPD crime blotter about a mugging where the perp matched the description of the guy I saw.

So every time I hear more from the tacti-cool CC crowd about how I'm giving up my tacti-cool advantage, I just think to myself that I'd rather avoid being in a crime rather than having the element of surprise.
Know what's better than being judged by 12 or carried by 6? Just going on your way and having no issues.

As for upsetting people, occasionally I get some anti-freedom idiot staring me down, but mostly no issues.
 

Around Here

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
32
Location
City of Seattle
Ahhh, you're the environmentalist posting on the hunting forum.

I should hope so. Hunters were environmentalists before anyone ever heard of an "environmentalist."

I'm guessing you are a sophomore at a liberal arts college.

I can only wish, because that would mean that I was 19 years old. I'd love to be 19 years old again, on the conditions that I'd have as much money as I do now; that I wouldn't forget anything on my trip backwards in time; and that I didn't have to listen to hip-hop music in the dorm. :cool:

You're the Chevy guy who posts on the Ford forum, right?

Why bother with Chevy when you can't remove the headrest to make room for your cowboy hat? Why bother with Ford when you can buy a Ram instead?

As for upsetting people, occasionally I get some anti-freedom idiot staring me down, but mostly no issues.

That would never be me. If I walked into a Starbucks, or my local bank branch, and saw a civilian with a gun on his hip, I would immediately (and as discreetly as possible) exercise my right to leave, taking maximum care not to establish eye contact. Not because of the gun itself, but because OC is so rare in my experience that I would question the guy's mental stability and my own safety. Please trust me, it's nothing personal. This would be my reptilian brain talking, and I pay careful attention when that part of my brain says "get the hell out of here right now." There a light fear that unleashes aggression, and then there is deep fear the triggers flight. I would be deeply afraid of an open carrier in Seattle, and I don't think I'm unique. Nor do I think I am somehow "better." I'm telling you how it is.

It's just like when I cross the street or even take a detour to avoid sharing the sidewalk with the lady three blocks away who walks a pit bull that could tear her arm right out of its socket if it suddenly decided to chase me. She once assured me that her dog is nothing but a big baby, but I'm afraid I stopped caring after the "big" part. Maybe I should carry a firearm, but between the poop bag, my own dog's leash, and the cigar, I'm afraid I'd reach for the wrong appliance and burn my trigger finger just before the pit bull chewed it off. It would help if I were ex-military and was more comfortable with guns, but I'm afraid I'm of a certain charmed age that allowed me to do a sort of snake dance around all the wars of the past 50 years. I've fired a gun once in my adult life. Enjoyed the hell out of it, but it's not part of my life. Who know, maybe that'll change someday.

If this marks me as a bed wetter, fine. Can't say I care. But I assure it's not mere fear of a gun. I've seen OC civilians in the country, and haven't much batted an eyelash. It's a matter of time and place, that's all. Anyway, enough of this. I'm getting to the babbling stage now, and that never ends well.
 
Last edited:

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
I can only wish, because that would mean that I was 19 years old. I'd love to be 19 years old again, on the conditions that I'd have as much money as I do now; that I wouldn't forget anything on my trip backwards in time; and that I didn't have to listen to hip-hop music in the dorm. :cool:

I'll be 36 in 7 days and I am a sophomore in college. Age is not a limiting factor on choosing to expand your education. In my case, I'm not going for liberal arts, I'm going for constitutional and civil rights law so that I may better fight for the rights of those around me.

As for your bet that something bad won't happen, I can personally attest that just when you think it won't, it does.

There's a sale at Sig Arms, buy one get one Sig http://www.sigsauer.com/Promotions/CurrentPromotions.aspx

Oh wait, you don't see the need to own guns. NM. I got confused because you were posting on a PRO gun forum.

He's also posting his anti open carry on a pro open carry forum.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
Most of my responses are embedded above in blue.

Keep an open mind, be inquisitive, seek out the truth.
I have no animosity towards you for your not agreeing with me or this site 100%. That you are willing to listen and discuss the issues is enough for now. It would be an eye opener for you if you only but went to the range with someone locally. :)

Maybe some not so nice experiences with gov't officials will show him the light.
 

Dave_pro2a

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
, ,
I'll be 36 in 7 days and I am a sophomore in college. Age is not a limiting factor on choosing to expand your education.

I was talking about his pathetic effort to appear erudite.

"archetypal tribal issue" Oh please.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Ahhh, you're the environmentalist posting on the hunting forum.

I'm guessing you are a sophomore at a liberal arts college.

I can only wish, because that would mean that I was 19 years old. I'd love to be 19 years old again, on the conditions that I'd have as much money as I do now; that I wouldn't forget anything on my trip backwards in time; and that I didn't have to listen to hip-hop music in the dorm. :cool:

I was talking about his pathetic effort to appear erudite.

"archetypal tribal issue" Oh please.

I was commenting on the fact that he was saying he wished he was 19 again. Being young is not a requirement for going to college. I am technically a sophomore in college and I'm 36.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
That would never be me. If I walked into a Starbucks, or my local bank branch, and saw a civilian with a gun on his hip, I would immediately (and as discreetly as possible) exercise my right to leave, taking maximum care not to establish eye contact. Not because of the gun itself, but because OC is so rare in my experience that I would question the guy's mental stability and my own safety. Please trust me, it's nothing personal. This would be my reptilian brain talking, and I pay careful attention when that part of my brain says "get the hell out of here right now." There a light fear that unleashes aggression, and then there is deep fear the triggers flight. I would be deeply afraid of an open carrier in Seattle, and I don't think I'm unique. Nor do I think I am somehow "better." I'm telling you how it is.

It's just like when I cross the street or even take a detour to avoid sharing the sidewalk with the lady three blocks away who walks a pit bull that could tear her arm right out of its socket if it suddenly decided to chase me. She once assured me that her dog is nothing but a big baby, but I'm afraid I stopped caring after the "big" part. Maybe I should carry a firearm, but between the poop bag, my own dog's leash, and the cigar, I'm afraid I'd reach for the wrong appliance and burn my trigger finger just before the pit bull chewed it off. It would help if I were ex-military and was more comfortable with guns, but I'm afraid I'm of a certain charmed age that allowed me to do a sort of snake dance around all the wars of the past 50 years. I've fired a gun once in my adult life. Enjoyed the hell out of it, but it's not part of my life. Who know, maybe that'll change someday.

If this marks me as a bed wetter, fine. Can't say I care. But I assure it's not mere fear of a gun. I've seen OC civilians in the country, and haven't much batted an eyelash. It's a matter of time and place, that's all. Anyway, enough of this. I'm getting to the babbling stage now, and that never ends well.

Dude you have mental problems or are a troll maybe both.
 

DocWalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
1,922
Location
Mountain Home, Idaho, USA
1. I don't own a gun. I am not a hunter or sport shooter, and I feel no need to have one for personal protection.

Why are you even on this web site other than to stir the pot? You need to go out and get a life, really find a hobby or something that you enjoy doing. We know you are comfident that if you or your family is assualted that the cops will be standing right next to you; but for those of us that have been in the wrong place at the wrong time and cops 15-20 minutes away. Lets just say we take our and our familys security very serious.

Good luck with trusting in the goverment being there to protect you.
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
That would never be me. If I walked into a Starbucks, or my local bank branch, and saw a civilian with a gun on his hip, I would immediately (and as discreetly as possible) exercise my right to leave, taking maximum care not to establish eye contact. Not because of the gun itself, but because OC is so rare in my experience that I would question the guy's mental stability and my own safety. Please trust me, it's nothing personal. This would be my reptilian brain talking, and I pay careful attention when that part of my brain says "get the hell out of here right now." There a light fear that unleashes aggression, and then there is deep fear the triggers flight. I would be deeply afraid of an open carrier in Seattle, and I don't think I'm unique. Nor do I think I am somehow "better." I'm telling you how it is.


.

I sincerely hope that you make it out to one of the meet ups we routinely have so that you can meet some of us, talk with us and realize just how normal we are. And mentally stable too. Just think about it, what kind of unstable person goes around letting their gun just sit there in a holster? Most of the time an unstable person will hide their weapon till the moment they use it.

We are sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers. The only difference is that we choose to display our ability to defend ourselves and our families (much like a porcupine with its quills) because criminals may be stupid but they're smart enough to see that we're no easy meal like the average sheep. And also like the porcupine, we are ready at a moments notice to use our defenses should we encounter the occasional extra stupid criminal.

Seriously though, come out and meet us. You might be surprised. I'm sure you'll even get an invite to the range.
 

Dave_pro2a

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
2,132
Location
, ,
Upon reflection, Around Here could be a supporter of anti-gun Rights legislation HI 594, or a biased anti-gun reporter, or a liberal anti-gun Rights Seattle blogger -- intentionally stirring the pot to get forum members to say things he thinks are inflammatory with hopes of using them later in a smear piece.
 

Trigger Dr

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2007
Messages
2,760
Location
Wa, ,
Upon reflection, Around Here could be a supporter of anti-gun Rights legislation HI 594, or a biased anti-gun reporter, or a liberal anti-gun Rights Seattle blogger -- intentionally stirring the pot to get forum members to say things he thinks are inflammatory with hopes of using them later in a smear piece.

OR...he could be a person who expresses his views the same way we express ours. Does that make him a troll? No more than the few on here that have posted in excess of 10000 with less than 3% of the posts having information with value.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
...4. I am theoretically o.k. with magazine capacity limits. Not sure what the number ought to be, and it would have to be carefully crafted so as not to endorse or enable confiscation. Even though I am not a gun owner, what's happening in N.Y. and CA is genuinely worrisome to me as a citizen....

p.s.: Wow, the Seahawks are really kickin' ass here, huh? :)

Good post to explain your thoughts. It's nice to see real THINKING being done. Not everyone here has the same ideas on how to do everything either, while all being anti-gun-control about it, mostly.

I'm just isolating your #4 here, as well as your Seahawks comment, of course, as they have been my team for all of 40 years.

Why would magazine-capacity limits have anything to do with crime? With as quickly as they can be changed, it is one of the least effective things you can do to make a firearm less capable, or are you also in favor of making magazines non-detachable? Even if it takes a few extra seconds (like in California) to change out a magazine, what REALLY increases a bad guy's firepower is the complete lack of return fire.

Do you know the capacity of the magazines used in the Glock handguns used for the Virginia Tech massacre? If you don't, please check it out and add it to your meditation on the subject.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,331
Location
Nevada
... If I walked into a Starbucks, or my local bank branch, and saw a civilian with a gun on his hip, I would immediately (and as discreetly as possible) exercise my right to leave, taking maximum care not to establish eye contact. Not because of the gun itself, but because OC is so rare in my experience that I would question the guy's mental stability and my own safety. Please trust me, it's nothing personal. This would be my reptilian brain talking, and I pay careful attention when that part of my brain says "get the hell out of here right now." There a light fear that unleashes aggression, and then there is deep fear the triggers flight. I would be deeply afraid of an open carrier in Seattle, and I don't think I'm unique. Nor do I think I am somehow "better." I'm telling you how it is....

To more understand your point, what are your thoughts and actions if you see someone in the same location, and they accidentally and briefly exposed a concealed firearm?
 

EMNofSeattle

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
3,670
Location
S. Kitsap, Washington state
That would never be me. If I walked into a Starbucks, or my local bank branch, and saw a civilian with a gun on his hip, I would immediately (and as discreetly as possible) exercise my right to leave, taking maximum care not to establish eye contact. Not because of the gun itself, but because OC is so rare in my experience that I would question the guy's mental stability and my own safety. Please trust me, it's nothing personal. This would be my reptilian brain talking, and I pay careful attention when that part of my brain says "get the hell out of here right now." There a light fear that unleashes aggression, and then there is deep fear the triggers flight. I would be deeply afraid of an open carrier in Seattle, and I don't think I'm unique. Nor do I think I am somehow "better." I'm telling you how it is.

you know what's funny about this statement, is I once did open carry in downtown Seattle, and Sawant and her volunteers (that's the councilwoman who is a socialist, and I don't mean that as an insult, because she calls herself a socialist) tried to talk me into voting for her, fortunately i had the easy way out becasue i don't live in the city.

evidentally people carrying holstered guns are that intimidating if extreme leftists are willing to ask an open carrier for their vote...
 
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