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Kinda off topic...

Outdoorsman

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
273
Location
Genesee County, Michigan, USA
imported post

After several weeks and 2 or3 emails back to Sgt. Bennett, I have yet to hear anything. So I decided to re-post my question on the MSP website. We'll see what happens this time.
 

MarineSgt

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
195
Location
Allendale, Michigan, USA
imported post

Found this: http://www.michigancitizen.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1925&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname

class="CH1"Student wins in court
7-7-2005-12-56-15-PM-10112358.05.15.05.Mother.daughter.gif

By Diane Bukowski
The Michigan Citizen

June 8, 2005

DETROIT – Honor student Deidra Stokes triumphed in court June 28, but a conversation she had with Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick regarding her arrest outside Northern High School shows that Kilpatrick and the police may need a crash course in the constitutional rights of Detroiters.

Thirty-Sixth District Court Judge Mark Randon dismissed a charge of “impeding pedestrian traffic” brought against Stokes after Detroit police officer Jamale Turner failed to show up at her hearing. Turner briefly arrested Stokes March 15 in a sweep outside Northern, prior to an expected appearance there by Kilpatrick.

Stokes was only waiting for her mother to pick her up after completing that evening’s Upward Bound college prep class.

Stokes said she spoke with Kilpatrick about her case when she and her mother encountered him earlier in the month on a campaign stop.

“Mayor Kilpatrick said he had nothing to do with that, and I just should have given the police my ID,” said Stokes. “He told me he is a lawyer.”

Stokes had told the mayor that Turner asked for her ID when she was reluctant to leave the spot where her mother normally picks her up. When Stokes did not show her ID, Turner arrested her and put her in the back of his police car before ticketing her and releasing her to her mother.

“That’s garbage,” said long-time criminal defense attorney James C. Howarth. “This is neither Nazi Germany in the 1930’s nor South Africa in the 1950’s. You do not have to show your papers to police, with only two exceptions, if you are driving, or crossing an international border. If I want to leave my house and go to the corner to buy a cup of coffee, the police cannot require me to show ID. I have a right to say either, ‘I’m not showing it to you, or I don’t have any ID on me.’”

In 1979, Howarth argued the case of Michigan v. DeFillippo before the U.S. Supreme Court, on behalf of a defendant who had violated the Detroit “Stop and Identify” ordinance then in existence by failing to show identification. The defendant was searched pursuant to his arrest on the ordinance violation, and charged with drug possession.

Subsequent to the defendant’s arrest, the ordinance was declared unconstitutional by Michigan’s state appeals and supreme courts. By a 5-3 margin, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld DeFillippo’s conviction on the drug possession charges, but did not dispute the state courts’ rulings that the “Stop and ID” ordinance was unconstitutional.

In March of 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court held in the hotly-disputed case of Hibbel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada that individuals must give their names to police. Howarth said, however, that decision did not include the right to ask for identification papers.

Prior to press time, Kilpatrick’s communications chief Ceeon Quiett did not reply to several phone calls for comment.

Stokes’ mother Gloria Bland said that in preparation for Stokes trial, she had obtained a letter from Northern High School principal Marvin Youmans confirming that Stokes was present on the high school grounds for the Upward Bound course.

Youmans had earlier supported the police sweep in question, as well as other police sweeps periodically ordered by the Detroit Public Schools in school hallways.

Stokes’ attorney Shanta Driver said, “We’re planning to discuss with the family the possibility of a civil suit against the city false arrest and for harassment. What was done to Deidra is completely outrageous, and this would be really valuable to stop this kind of needless harassment against the youth of the city of Detroit.”

Pursuant to a petition by Mitchell’s Media Group, the Detroit city council has set a hearing on school police sweeps and other police harassment of Detroit youth for Thursday, July 28 at 10 a.m. Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings, who has defended the sweeps, has been asked to be present.

For further information on the hearing, call Wyoman Mitchell at (313) 645-3376.
 

Outdoorsman

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
273
Location
Genesee County, Michigan, USA
imported post

MarineSgt wrote:
Found this: http://www.michigancitizen.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=1&twindow=&mad=&sdetail=1925&wpage=1&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname

class="CH1"Student wins in court
7-7-2005-12-56-15-PM-10112358.05.15.05.Mother.daughter.gif

By Diane Bukowski
The Michigan Citizen

June 8, 2005

DETROIT – Honor student Deidra Stokes triumphed in court June 28, but a conversation she had with Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick regarding her arrest outside Northern High School shows that Kilpatrick and the police may need a crash course in the constitutional rights of Detroiters.

Thirty-Sixth District Court Judge Mark Randon dismissed a charge of “impeding pedestrian traffic” brought against Stokes after Detroit police officer Jamale Turner failed to show up at her hearing. Turner briefly arrested Stokes March 15 in a sweep outside Northern, prior to an expected appearance there by Kilpatrick.

Stokes was only waiting for her mother to pick her up after completing that evening’s Upward Bound college prep class.

Stokes said she spoke with Kilpatrick about her case when she and her mother encountered him earlier in the month on a campaign stop.

“Mayor Kilpatrick said he had nothing to do with that, and I just should have given the police my ID,” said Stokes. “He told me he is a lawyer.”

Stokes had told the mayor that Turner asked for her ID when she was reluctant to leave the spot where her mother normally picks her up. When Stokes did not show her ID, Turner arrested her and put her in the back of his police car before ticketing her and releasing her to her mother.

“That’s garbage,” said long-time criminal defense attorney James C. Howarth. “This is neither Nazi Germany in the 1930’s nor South Africa in the 1950’s. You do not have to show your papers to police, with only two exceptions, if you are driving, or crossing an international border. If I want to leave my house and go to the corner to buy a cup of coffee, the police cannot require me to show ID. I have a right to say either, ‘I’m not showing it to you, or I don’t have any ID on me.’”

In 1979, Howarth argued the case of Michigan v. DeFillippo before the U.S. Supreme Court, on behalf of a defendant who had violated the Detroit “Stop and Identify” ordinance then in existence by failing to show identification. The defendant was searched pursuant to his arrest on the ordinance violation, and charged with drug possession.

Subsequent to the defendant’s arrest, the ordinance was declared unconstitutional by Michigan’s state appeals and supreme courts. By a 5-3 margin, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld DeFillippo’s conviction on the drug possession charges, but did not dispute the state courts’ rulings that the “Stop and ID” ordinance was unconstitutional.

In March of 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court held in the hotly-disputed case of Hibbel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada that individuals must give their names to police. Howarth said, however, that decision did not include the right to ask for identification papers.

Prior to press time, Kilpatrick’s communications chief Ceeon Quiett did not reply to several phone calls for comment.

Stokes’ mother Gloria Bland said that in preparation for Stokes trial, she had obtained a letter from Northern High School principal Marvin Youmans confirming that Stokes was present on the high school grounds for the Upward Bound course.

Youmans had earlier supported the police sweep in question, as well as other police sweeps periodically ordered by the Detroit Public Schools in school hallways.

Stokes’ attorney Shanta Driver said, “We’re planning to discuss with the family the possibility of a civil suit against the city false arrest and for harassment. What was done to Deidra is completely outrageous, and this would be really valuable to stop this kind of needless harassment against the youth of the city of Detroit.”

Pursuant to a petition by Mitchell’s Media Group, the Detroit city council has set a hearing on school police sweeps and other police harassment of Detroit youth for Thursday, July 28 at 10 a.m. Police Chief Ella Bully-Cummings, who has defended the sweeps, has been asked to be present.

For further information on the hearing, call Wyoman Mitchell at (313) 645-3376.

That's quite the story! I think that people are brought up to respect the police and to always do what they are asked or told to do. We assume that if they say it, it must be within their right as a LEO. I don't know for certain, but it seems the police are trained to ask or demand things from citizens, even if you are not required by law to do so. If you don't comply, then they start the intimidation factor of threatening arrest or other. Most people don't know any better because that's what they were taught to do. I, for one, am a law abiding citizen. That's how I was taught to be. But I am seeing more and more of law enforcement trampling on people's rights, just because they were trained that way, or simply think that they are above the law and can get away with it. Sorry, when I get on my soapbox it's hard to get off sometimes.

Anyway, I simply want to know what is required of us by law and what our rights are. I will abide by your laws, but don't trample on my rights in the process!
 

Outdoorsman

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
273
Location
Genesee County, Michigan, USA
imported post

Well, here it is, the answer we've all been waiting for... :?


Thank you for your interest in traffic safety and for posting your question to
the MSP website. It has been forwarded to my office for a response.

You were given the answer. Yes, if you have broken a law, you must give the
officer your identification. I am sorry you did not understand my response.

Thank you,

Sgt. Jill M. Bennett
Michigan State Police
Traffic Safety Division
Traffic Services Section
333 S. Grand Avenue
Lansing, MI 48933
TX: 517-241-0576
Fax: 517-241-0501
bennettj14@michigan.gov



So there it is ladies and gentlemen, if you're guilty of a crime, you must give them your ID!
 

johnfenter

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
209
Location
, ,
imported post

For your next trick, you should ask him what ID you are required to carry as a pedestrian, and what statute mandates that you do so...
 
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