Kirkland - Man attacked by pit bulls, shoots one of them in self defense

[tai4de2]

I am curious to know what happened at the scene when Kirkland PD responded.

Did they assume the shooter was 'bad' and harass him? Confiscate his weapon? Etc.

 

[Aaron1124]

There was a King County Sheriff Deputy murdered by a guy high on crack. Deputy responded to a guy running around the naked and generally freaking out. He sprayed the crackhead with OC and it had no effect, crackhead charged him and wrestled his pistol away from him. Deputy went for cover and was shot in the leg. Crackhead walked up to Deputy and shot him 4 times in the head. Crackhead is currently serving a LWOP sentence in a cozy state prison.

I'm sure it happens, as the situation you've described, but if I am in a situation, and at the time, and under circumstances, I may not feel that drawing a firearm would be necessary right off the bat. Especially if I'm not in fear of my life.

Some people just have short tempers, and like to lash out. When I worked in security, I saw a ton of incidents involving road rage, and the instigator would often try to physically assault the other. I feel if I were in a situation where I accidentally cut someone off, or did something that stirred up someone else, and I was confronted, I would resort to non lethal methods of protection rather than draw my gun.

Others might want to draw their gun, and that's fine, but to me, there are some circumstances that may warrant a use of force, but not necessarily deadly force.

 

[xxx.jakk.xxx]

If traveling in Bear Country I hope your firearm is up to the task. There is a saying among Alaska residents "If you're going to carry a handgun for protection in bear country make sure you file the front sight down. That way it won't hurt as much when the bear shoves it up your @--".

Lot of Shotguns and S&W500's carried for that reason. Not 9mm's or 40S&W's.

You're making me feel less than safe right now. I live right by a section of DNR land and I use DNR land to target shoot on. Well, there have been bear sightings in this particular land, actually a mother black bear and her 2 cubs on the main trail. I have a XDm .40s&w... Well, hopefully the 33rds I carry in magazines will be enough for her if I ever get put into that dangerous situation. Though, I usually also take my shotgun when I go shooting and 00buck might be better for bear defense...

 

[amlevin]

You're making me feel less than safe right now. I live right by a section of DNR land and I use DNR land to target shoot on. Well, there have been bear sightings in this particular land, actually a mother black bear and her 2 cubs on the main trail. I have a XDm .40s&w... Well, hopefully the 33rds I carry in magazines will be enough for her if I ever get put into that dangerous situation. Though, I usually also take my shotgun when I go shooting and 00buck might be better for bear defense...

Bears are a problem for handguns, even big handguns. Their skulls are curved, have lots of cartilage, and tough bone in front of the brain. The rest of the body is heavily muscled. A average handgun, with only 500 foot/lbs of energy and lower speeds don't penetrate and do the necessary damage to kill or stop a bear quick enough to make them effective as an Anti-Bear weapon. On the other hand, a shotgun, loaded with slug or 00 Buck provides a lot of energy that can stop a bear.

Some make the argument that they can place several shots from their .357's, 44 mags, 500 S&W's etc in a bear's skull and stop it. Somehow I think their arguments are just as full of the same stuff they'd find in their pants if they ever were charged by a bear. More and more are opting for Bear Spray due to the sensitivity of a Bear's nose. Bear Spray can definitely give them something else to think about and also takes away the only sense that really works, that of smell. Most bears don't have all that great eyesight.

If you have a shotgun take it with you. Load up with 00 and Slugs in the heaviest load your shotgun will handle.

 

[amzbrady]

Bears are a problem for handguns, even big handguns. Their skulls are curved, have lots of cartilage, and tough bone in front of the brain. The rest of the body is heavily muscled. A average handgun, with only 500 foot/lbs of energy and lower speeds don't penetrate and do the necessary damage to kill or stop a bear quick enough to make them effective as an Anti-Bear weapon. On the other hand, a shotgun, loaded with slug or 00 Buck provides a lot of energy that can stop a bear.

Some make the argument that they can place several shots from their .357's, 44 mags, 500 S&W's etc in a bear's skull and stop it. Somehow I think their arguments are just as full of the same stuff they'd find in their pants if they ever were charged by a bear. More and more are opting for Bear Spray due to the sensitivity of a Bear's nose. Bear Spray can definitely give them something else to think about and also takes away the only sense that really works, that of smell. Most bears don't have all that great eyesight.

If you have a shotgun take it with you. Load up with 00 and Slugs in the heaviest load your shotgun will handle.

I could see questioning a .357 and a 44, but I dont think a S&W500 is going to ricochet off a bears noggin.


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[amlevin]

I could see questioning a .357 and a 44, but I dont think a S&W500 is going to ricochet off a bears noggin.


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Do some reading on Bear's skulls. Even rifle bullets have been known to ricochet off that mass of gristle and bone.

Most recommend that a wadcutter like bullet be used as it has a tendency to dig in rather than "skate off" like a spitzer or round nosed bullet.

FWIW, Head shots on bears are not highly recommended for this reason.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

I once shot a 200 lb + - bear at 75 yards through the middle of its chest with a 225 grain .338 the bear then ran about 200 yards and climbed a tree. I shot it again it fell out of the tree and growled at me before it died. Dont ever underestimate a bears ability to soak up bullets it can be a dead bear walking and still rip your head off.

 

[Aaron1124]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a round fired from a 500 S&W have more power at 25 feet than a shotgun slug?

 

[Claytron]

I am sorry for the miscommunication. Fully justified...but it may not have been the best option.

I have thought about this a lot, because I go to parks with my kids, and for some reason every huge dog in the world seems to have an :cuss: owner that says, "He/she loves kids." as they snap the leash off and the dog bounds towards my kids.

Seriously, I am getting to point where I am about to buy pepper spray by the case and gas every dog that comes close to my kids.

(If the cops enforced the "Dogs must be on leash law" like they enforced the illegal no gun allowed laws, it would make me very happy.) :banghead:

And people wonder why some breeds get a bad rap... you have people that read threads like this and actually buy into the stereotype BS stories that people give out..... Now you are going to spray anyone or anything that comes near your kids...?

Just like the general consensus is to shoot anyone whos not white and reaches into their pants after 6pm

 

[amlevin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a round fired from a 500 S&W have more power at 25 feet than a shotgun slug?

Numerically, yes although it can be real close depending on the selection of bullets. The lighter faster bullets can post some big numbers but the slow poke heavier ones are almost the same as shotgun slugs for "numbers".

Most of the Alaska residents I knew when I traveled there preferred the shotgun however because of the ability to use Buckshot. A "snoot full" of Buckshot destroys the Bear's ability to "see" both it's myopic eyesight and it's sense of smell. Some of the guys that fished the rivers around Fairbanks liked #4 Buckshot for just that reason. It had a shredding effect when hitting the bear's "face" and the next loads were 3" Magnum Slugs.

Regardless of the gun you are carrying, it's best to just give the bear your fish and stay away from the cubs.