Legality of using LE/Miltary Ammo

[MAC702]

...the difference between a cartridge designated 5.56x45NATO (measurably higher pressures, higher velocity, more FPE, and greater effective range) vs the civilian designation of Remington .223 , or the 7.62NATO vs .308 Winchester (essentially the same differences as 5.56 vs. 223) ...

Quick clarification, please. In the latter example, the difference is swapped, with the commercial .308 being higher pressure than military 7.62mm NATO.

And thank you for using and citing accurate info regarding the conventions. BZ.

So now I'm curious, after reading a couple other posts in this thread. Are there soldiers that carry their own ammunition, and not issued ball ammo?

 

[Gil223]

Quick clarification, please. In the latter example, the difference is swapped, with the commercial .308 being higher pressure than military 7.62mm NATO.

You are correct. SAAMI specifies a maximum average pressure for .308 Winchester of 62,000 PSI, but the oft-cited pressure of 7.62x51mm is 50,000 PSI--almost 25% less. There are several differences between the two cartridges, including: the longer length of the commercial 308 barrel; thinner case wall thickness of the 7.62 round; the scale used to report measurement (Copper Units of Pressure vs PSI); and the physical distance (chamber vs muzzle) at which the measurements are taken. The variables kinda make comparative measurements an apples/oranges deal. The "rule of thumb" is never fire .308 rounds in a 7.62 chamber! I should have reversed the position of the .308 and 7.62 in my example (and I hope that oversight didn't create any real-life, practical problems for anybody). The .308 develops roughly 25% higher pressures for about a 3% gain in performance. (That doesn't sound like a particularly good trade-off to me.)

So now I'm curious, after reading a couple other posts in this thread. Are there soldiers that carry their own ammunition, and not issued ball ammo?

Based solely upon anecdotal experience in Vietnam, I'm fairly certain there would be today also. I know commercial ammo was used by some individuals in Vietnam (especially "Air America" crews), but there had to be serious limitations on how/where a uniformed soldier could get American-made commercial ammo. Therefore his personal "ammo stash" had to be quite limited by the logistics involved - it wasn't like he could get it at the PX. Pax...

 

[PavePusher]

Quick clarification, please. In the latter example, the difference is swapped, with the commercial .308 being higher pressure than military 7.62mm NATO.

And thank you for using and citing accurate info regarding the conventions. BZ.

So now I'm curious, after reading a couple other posts in this thread. Are there soldiers that carry their own ammunition, and not issued ball ammo?

Only if they don't mind being Art. 15'd or C-M'd. I've never heard of it, and getting ammo in/out of a war zone these days would be a real pain in the ass. You couldn't do it in personal baggage, might be able to take non-milspec ammo in via cargo, i.e. hide it in something else (whistling... lots of hiding places in a tank or aircraft being shipped/ferried to a war zone) but it could be chancy.

 

[Gil223]

You couldn't do it in personal baggage, might be able to take non-milspec ammo in via cargo, i.e. hide it in something else (whistling... lots of hiding places in a tank or aircraft being shipped/ferried to a war zone) but it could be chancy.

Military cargo has been used for much worse than transporting something for the personal comfort of a soldier who feels more secure with commercial ammo than with the ammo provided by the low bidder. Our military personnel are nothing if not imaginative and creative when it comes to getting things done. I knew a guy in 'nam who had his own off-the-books Jeep, and when I left he was working on a deal to trade that for his own personal APC. I think he must have gotten caught in that last deal, because the last I saw of him was stateside a couple of years later - he was pumping gas in Biloxi, MS (and didn't respond when I called him by name). Either that or, he was so talented, he was recruited by the CIA and was a 'plant' at the Sinclair station. Pax...

 

[Gunslinger]

....


Based solely upon anecdotal experience in Vietnam, I'm fairly certain there would be today also. I know commercial ammo was used by some individuals in Vietnam (especially "Air America" crews), but there had to be serious limitations on how/where a uniformed soldier could get American-made commercial ammo. Therefore his personal "ammo stash" had to be quite limited by the logistics involved - it wasn't like he could get it at the PX. Pax...

My experience in SEA carrying HP Super-Vels was typical of USAF fighter pilots/WSOs as well as Marine and Navy aircrews flying combat planes. It was shipped along with your personal handgun in your baggage, under orders, and was no problem at all. I also know many aircrews currently who do the same thing with commercial ammo for their M-9s or along with a personal weapon. It may well be more difficult for grunts, but Officer aircrews have little problem in getting it to themselves. A buddy who flies a cargo plane is the easiest route if you don't want it shipped with your gear. Air America crews were not military nor subject to the Hague Convention and carried whatever they chose, again, often Hi-Powers with Super Vels for their handguns. We had a large Air America facility at Udorn and I knew many of them and what they carried--including M-79 grenade launchers.

 

[Aknazer]

I've heard the most common way things like JHPs end up in "combat" is from cops taking their stateside gun/ammo with them and forgetting that they had JHPs in their gun.