"Legitimate Sacrificial Citizen"?

[Citizen]

SNIP If you can't de-escalate him but you have a clean line of fire, take him out. If not, wait. If he winds up shooting the hostage, then it's game over and time to save the taxpayers the grief of decades of trials and prison costs.

Excuse me? Save the taxpayers?

When did taxpayers get priority over the Fifth Amendment right to not be deprived of life or liberty without due process of law?

When did Tennessee vs Garner get re-written?

When did police become authorized as executioners applying punishment?

And, don't say your words were misconstrued. You did not say "if the hostage taker turns his gun on the cops after shooting the hostage."

You went instantly to executing the criminal to save taxpayers the money. If you want to save taxpayers money there are vast numbers of ways you can advocate that will save a lot more than extra-judicial executions by police.

In the meantime, spare us the Sylvester Stallone Judge Dredd stuff.

 

[XD40sc]

Victims do not die at the hands of good guys, if a cop shoots a innocent person they are not a good guy. Just like any citizen they are responsible for their actions. There is NO EXCUSE! Plus NYS appears to have a problem with police shooting innocent bystanders and victims of crimes, patting them on the back for this behavior is disgusting. Everybody is responsible for their actions, police should not be exempt to shoot anybody they want to, just because.

And yes you did insinuate I was not a LEO, by the ignorant stupid tv show remark. NOW you are lying about the remark. Maybe you are a cop wannabe, excusing screw ups.

BTW cite any department policy that shooting the hostage is acceptable?

Nope, I never challenged your claim to be a LEO. Your skin is too thin, or your reading comprehension could use improvement. The last thing I ever wanted to be is a cop. Jeeeez, a career of dealing with the bottom feeders of society, no thanks. I'm glad some want to do it, but the pay sucks, involves shift work (bad for the health) and a life.

I don't know department policies, and I'm sure they vary from department to department, and state to state based on laws.
Was the "policy" for the dept that responded to Columbine HS, to take cover while an active shooter is still killing victims inside the school? But the supreme court of the US has ruled that police have no duty to protect citizens, so all is good I guess.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Nope, I never challenged your claim to be a LEO. Your skin is too thin, or your reading comprehension could use improvement. The last thing I ever wanted to be is a cop. Jeeeez, a career of dealing with the bottom feeders of society, no thanks. I'm glad some want to do it, but the pay sucks, involves shift work (bad for the health) and a life.

There was no other reason for the remark, you are a liar. It has nothing to do with thin skin, if it did you should grow yours thicker and admit to your lies.

 

[rushcreek2]

Had the officer elected to shoot in a similar virtual training scenario prior to be issued a badge he would have flunked, and been denied the badge.

Whether or not he keeps his badge will depend upon the totality of facts surrounding this incident, as well as his previous performance record . He will not be prosecuted.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

On information and belief, the number of armed FedGov agents is in excess of one million.

********.....

there's about 850,000 LEOs in the country of all levels of government...... if you count the military you may be correct, but commissioned agents? no way.

 

[davidmcbeth]

Excellent analysis.

Thanks !

 

[eye95]

...

Make no mistake about this: I did not in any way, shape, or form address this analysis at what this thing wrote. It is being blatantly dishonest, implying that I should be thanked by it for praising it. I did no such thing. Please use the track back link to determine who was being praised and who is the only person who should indicate any feeling one way or the other for that praise.

By dishonestly creating false context for this praise, this thing has misrepresented what I said and will be reported for such.

What a despicable thing to do. Not surprising, considering the thing that did it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

 

[WalkingWolf]

Had the officer elected to shoot in a similar virtual training scenario prior to be issued a badge he would have flunked, and been denied the badge.

Whether or not he keeps his badge will depend upon the totality of facts surrounding this incident, as well as his previous performance record . He will not be prosecuted.

IMO he will probably be put on permanent disability, a reward for a total screw up.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Make no mistake about this: I did not in any way, shape, or form address this analysis at what this thing wrote. It is being blatantly dishonest, implying that I should be thanked by it for praising it. I did no such thing. Please use the track back link to determine who was being praised and who is the only person who should indicate any feeling one way or the other for that praise.

By dishonestly creating false context for this praise, this thing has misrepresented what I said and will be reported for such.

What a despicable thing to do. Not surprising, considering the thing that did it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

<o>

Is there anything you don't report? Just how many times a day do you click that report triangle? I bet the mods just love seeing their inbox full of Bovine Scatology a hundred times a day...

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Is there anything you don't report? Just how many times a day do you click that report triangle? I bet the mods just love seeing their inbox full of Bovine Scatology a hundred times a day...

Personal attack, reported

:lol:

 

[WalkingWolf]

Personal attack, reported

:lol:

Not really, he readily admits to reporting other members posts. He does it often, if he does not wish to be questioned he should stop announcing it.

 

[marshaul]

So, you believe that there are circumstances where those tasked with the use of firearms should not be knowledgeable and proficient in their use? Will you also waive any recourse against them for any instances resulting from this lack of knowledge and proficiency ( say persons shot from neglegent discharges or perhaps persons hit by inaccurate rounds fired at suspects)?

I realize you feel there are too many armed Federal agents, so do I, but there simply are that many. I would perfer that they at least be proficient enough with their issued weapons to reduce the chance of unintended harm to innocent citizens. The intended harm you seem to worry they may inflict via policy...... well those odds are a lot less likely.

Nah, you're putting words in my mouth. By the way, doing so has been known to precipitate an indignant

overreaction, and we've already had one of those on this page...

Frankly, I have no problem putting them between a rock and a hard place (and the forgotten option of being a decent human being). I don't have super many qualms with leaving them undertrained and throwing them under the bus whenever they screw up. Especially considering that "training" usually consists of learning how best to treat the American citizen like an enemy combatant (see the much-ballyhooed "training" of Daniel Harmon-Wright). I would advise LEOs uncomfortable with that to seek productive employment, until their numbers have dwindled to something resembling non-parasitic levels. What can I say, I'm a hard case like that.

 

[XD40sc]

There was no other reason for the remark, you are a liar. It has nothing to do with thin skin, if it did you should grow yours thicker and admit to your lies.

:banghead: It was an example that real life isn't scripted and the best plans will fail in the real world. The example you gave your approach worked, and that depended on your actions, the perps actions and his state of mind, and the actions of the hostages. You got lucky, because with different personalities it could have gone south very quickly, had you done the very same thing.

But this sure looks like a TV cop drama, cop doesn't like want he hears, so he calls the person that said it a liar.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for LEO's, it's a tough thankless job. But as a LEO, either active for former, to demand that this cop be arrested, tried, and imprisoned is way out of line, you are NOT the judge, jury, and warden. You don't know what the officer was told by the dispatcher, what he saw, or even if there was any cover he could have taken. And as a LEO, you know damn well that every shooting will be investigated by a different agency.

It really makes me wonder, as a cop do you believe in handing out street justice, or let our laws and our system work?

 

[WalkingWolf]

:banghead: It was an example that real life isn't scripted and the best plans will fail in the real world. The example you gave your approach worked, and that depended on your actions, the perps actions and his state of mind, and the actions of the hostages. You got lucky, because with different personalities it could have gone south very quickly, had you done the very same thing.

But this sure looks like a TV cop drama, cop doesn't like want he hears, so he calls the person that said it a liar.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for LEO's, it's a tough thankless job. But as a LEO, either active for former, to demand that this cop be arrested, tried, and imprisoned is way out of line, you are NOT the judge, jury, and warden. You don't know what the officer was told by the dispatcher, what he saw, or even if there was any cover he could have taken. And as a LEO, you know damn well that every shooting will be investigated by a different agency.

It really makes me wonder, as a cop do you believe in handing out street justice, or let our laws and our system work?

And then you do it again... LIAR!

The officer being arrested and tried is not street justice in any way, the officer killing the hostage was street injustice. Police should be treated just like a citizen if they killed a innocent person. YOU are the one who does not want the system to work, you want the officer to get a pass, just because he has a badge. BTW we do know what the officer was told, and he was told there was a man with a gun inside with a hostage. Not just by one person who made the initial call, but by the second person who escaped, yet the dumb arse entered anyway without waiting. The hostages life was just as important, if not more so than the officers. The family deserves to have their day in court.

 

[HP995]

what this thing wrote

And that's not a personal attack?

Sometimes I've been amazed at how much effort is spent on personal insults and pointless arguments. (There are also very important and meaningful arguments, those are good, I'm not talking about those.)

Is it really worth it?

Look at the big picture. The media hates guns and conducts shameless brainwashing now without traditional journalistic ethics. Kids get it double, they get anti-gun stuff at school too. Much of the American population is confused about facts, laws, philosophy, and what this country was started to accomplish. We have politicians and media just waiting for the next tragedy to try and push for anti-gun legislation again, even though it just got defeated when we made ourselves heard. And even among gun owners, many are not supportive of open carry, maybe even confused about concealed carry, or against certain types of guns, so that's a problem too.

So here we are, the people here are supportive of the Constitution and also realize that open carry is part of it. All of us here want to advance 2A and OC. It's wonderful the amount of news and good insights and analysis here, and personal and group efforts to spread awareness and change laws.

Shouldn't we try to be strong and united? Like Americans did at the beginning?

I'm not forcing anyone to be united and strong on our side, do what you believe is right, but personally I believe we need to pull together, encourage our fellow supporters, work together, and stand strong against the anti-gun, anti-Constitution movement. So that we keep winning in the short term and also win in the long term.

 

[XD40sc]

Highlight to challenge, the prove it in the process.

 

[palerider116]

He may end up being charged - let the shoot team do their job and let the District Attorney's office do their job in determining whether or not it will be presented to the grand jury.

No need to form a mob when the wheels of justice have yet to turn. It's awful enough with a dead hostage at the hands of the police.

 

[WalkingWolf]

He may end up being charged - let the shoot team do their job and let the District Attorney's office do their job in determining whether or not it will be presented to the grand jury.

No need to form a mob when the wheels of justice have yet to turn. It's awful enough with a dead hostage at the hands of the police.

I would agree with you, but NYS police agencies do not have a good record with holding officers who shoot and kill innocent victims to light. They killed a man with a drill, shot a clerk that was just trying to get away from a criminal. AND shot NINE innocent bystanders in which one officer could be seen shooting his sidearm as he was running away, not even aiming. So far ZIP on any charges or grand juries.

 

[palerider116]

I would agree with you, but NYS police agencies do not have a good record with holding officers who shoot and kill innocent victims to light. They killed a man with a drill, shot a clerk that was just trying to get away from a criminal. AND shot NINE innocent bystanders in which one officer could be seen shooting his sidearm as he was running away, not even aiming. So far ZIP on any charges or grand juries.

Unionization is always a danger to liberty. These agencies are monuments to an arcane way of doing things incorrectly and without accountability.

 

[marshaul]

Unionization is always a danger to liberty.

Well, that's certainly not true. And, way to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Unions can be voluntary groups without any sort of illegitimate authority. The ability to form such groups is a necessary and inherent aspect of liberty.

Also, if unionization is "always" a danger to liberty, then by the same token government is always mutually exclusive with it (liberty). Does that conclusion satisfy you?

And even that's not strictly true: government could be voluntarist and non-monopolizing.