• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Livonia PD just pulled me over for OC'ing on motorcycle???

mastiff69

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
573
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, United States
T Mack
I OC on my motorcycle ALL the time and have never been stopped for oc of a firearm, have even oced in indiana ohio ky & tn, on multiple times, never any problem worst i get from the pd's all over is a nod. this has been over a 4 yr period.

You did NOTHING wrong period, the pd is f--n with you or he is ignorant of the law, or is under orders from up above to do the stops on oc ....

T mack we can always do another New Era ride and see how the police handle half a dozen or more OCing motorcylists. that is another option.
 
Last edited:

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
wow. we are back to "a gun in a holster is concealed". how are these cops so uninformed after all this time.

I was baffled when he said that! I was thinking to myself how am I supposed to OC if it's not ok in a
holster!! I was racking my brain, did I miss something on the OC web site? I was like oh ****!!
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Technically, I think he was legal in the stop BUT, as soon as he knew YOU had a cpl, the stop should have ended. Assuming that one needs a cpl while on a motor vehicle, a cop could assume you are breaking the law. But, as soon as he determined you had a cpl, the initial reason for the stop has ceased to exist.
That being said, the whole comment about a pistol in a holster being partially concealed is garbage... and is exactly what I was told by GRPD on New Year's eve. The cop eventually acknowledged such a statement was BS. I'd take this to mean that the officer was testing you.
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
Go to the station and tell them you want to file a "formal complaint". Internal affairs has to investigate and send you a report of their findings. A formal complaint stays in the officers file for five years and it doesn't matter what the out come of the investigation is.

good luck


As polite as he was, I don't think I want to file a complaint.... YET!
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
T Mack
I OC on my motorcycle ALL the time and have never been stopped for oc of a firearm, have even oced in indiana ohio ky & tn, on multiple times, never any problem worst i get from the pd's all over is a nod. this has been over a 4 yr period.

You did NOTHING wrong period, the pd is f--n with you or he is ignorant of the law, or is under orders from up above to do the stops on oc ....

T mack we can always do another New Era ride and see how the police handle half a dozen or more OCing motorcylists. that is another option.

I love to ride and OC I'm ready whenever you guys are!
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
Technically, I think he was legal in the stop BUT, as soon as he knew YOU had a cpl, the stop should have ended. Assuming that one needs a cpl while on a motor vehicle, a cop could assume you are breaking the law. But, as soon as he determined you had a cpl, the initial reason for the stop has ceased to exist.
That being said, the whole comment about a pistol in a holster being partially concealed is garbage... and is exactly what I was told by GRPD on New Year's eve. The cop eventually acknowledged such a statement was BS. I'd take this to mean that the officer was testing you.

If he was testing me what was he testing me for? What would you guys have said or done differently
than I did?
That was my first time being stopped for open carrying and I'm not gonna lie I was a bit nervous? My hands shook a bit... I'm such a whimp!!!
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
Nah, you aint a wimp. You didnt do badly here.
I did remember one thing "big time" (don't reach for your gun if he askes for it)
when he asked for my ID I felt uncomfortable reaching for my wallet and made sure he knew I was
armed which I knew he already did. I just wanted to make sure he knew and I knew I didn't want to get shot reaching for my wallet and him saying or thinking I was reaching for my gun!
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
As polite as he was, I don't think I want to file a complaint.... YET!
Whether or not you decide to file a complaint is entirely up to you... and no one has the right to say anything about it one way or the other.

Yet please allow me to offer some food for thought....

Even though the officer was being polite as he screwed with you.... he still screwed with you. His being polite should not be a reason for you to have enjoyed being screwed with or should it detract from the fact that you got screwed with nor should there be a reason to be screwed with whether politely or not.

Now... if politeness is all that is necessary for an officer to get away with screwing with people then, unless someone objects to being politely screwed with, the polite screwings will continue.

But then you certainly have the option of saying "Screw it" in reference to your being politely screwed with.
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
If he was testing me what was he testing me for? What would you guys have said or done differently
than I did?
That was my first time being stopped for open carrying and I'm not gonna lie I was a bit nervous? My hands shook a bit... I'm such a whimp!!!

I think some cops don't want people to carry. If they can rattle you so that you decide to either not carry or cc, then he would feel better. Sort of the whole "community policing" philosophy in action.
BTW, I would be concerned if you weren't nervous. You did well! Carry on.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
If he was testing me what was he testing me for? What would you guys have said or done differently
than I did?
That was my first time being stopped for open carrying and I'm not gonna lie I was a bit nervous? My hands shook a bit... I'm such a whimp!!!

Let me tell you a secret....

Many OC'ers have been around the block a time or two and have had some... shall we say... "interactions" with LE and less than nice citizens but......and now I'll speak only for myself.... even with experience in handling these kinds of things I still "pucker up" a bit while the events are unfolding.

A recent incident in a park where I knew the police had been called due to my OC gave me a brief "pucker moment" as I mentally ran down everything to make sure I was on firm legal grounds. I was... but that "pucker" still happened.

So you are not a "wimp"... those who go through all the necessary learning of the law and then muster up the courage to open carry are definitely NOT wimps.
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
Why did he just ask for my license and not a CPL or ins & reg for my bike?
If he really wanted to screw with me? If I happened to not have my CPL on my person he could have got me or he could have ran the guns numbers? What did he do with my license? He ran my plate already that's how he knew I was a CPL holder correct? Wouldn't that have shown a warrant or anything else? So why and what did he do when he walked back to his car with my DL?
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
So you are not a "wimp"... those who go through all the necessary learning of the law and then muster up the courage to open carry are definitely NOT wimps.

Well it has not discouraged my from OC'ing if anything it gave me a little more confidence and experience with dealing with a LEO being stopped while OC'ing.

Just curious to see what the Livonia Police Chief has to say about the e-mail the MOC VP sent him. I wish I was a little better in my grammer too!! I was still amped up cause the stop just happened 5 minutes before! Actually I cut my ride short and turned around so I could post this thread ASAP!!!
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
Why did he just ask for my license and not a CPL or ins & reg for my bike?
If he really wanted to screw with me? If I happened to not have my CPL on my person he could have got me or he could have ran the guns numbers? What did he do with my license? He ran my plate already that's how he knew I was a CPL holder correct? Wouldn't that have shown a warrant or anything else? So why and what did he do when he walked back to his car with my DL?

Perhaps...because I wasn't there and have no facts to go on other than just one side of the story.... it is possible the officer was trying to do a little "social engineering" by trying to intimidate you into not OC'ing... there wasn't any need to mess with you about the ordinary things like your bike's license/insurance since he obviously wasn't interested in those things. And to have the stop include the bike and stray from the emphasis on the OC would detract from the message that OC is frowned upon.

And sometimes an officer will allow the "person of interest" to sit and stew while the officer sits in the car because that is a tactic used to see if the "person of interest" will panic and do something stupid, or say something stupid, that they can be arrested for.

I believe, and some of my personal experiences support, what Dr.Todd said below:

I think some cops don't want people to carry. If they can rattle you so that you decide to either not carry or cc, then he would feel better. Sort of the whole "community policing" philosophy in action.
BTW, I would be concerned if you weren't nervous. You did well! Carry on.

On the other hand... I wasn't there so maybe you just ran into an officer who doesn't know squat about firearm carry laws. I suppose that is possible... unlikely... but possible.

As time goes by and experience is gained those incidents/encounters whether with LE or an aggressive citizen are more easily handled because the more you OC the more you tend to become confident in your knowledge of the law.... and more importantly... more confident that not only are you in the right regardless of what kind of BS smoke they try to blow up your butt and you know how to present your case... but you also know when to shut up because your talking more won't help at all.

As the song sung by Kenny Rogers goes:

"You gotta know when to hold 'em.... Know when to fold 'em.... Know when to walk away..... Know when to run".

But know this.... that "pucker" I mentioned? That will still happen.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
B

Bikenut

Guest
Well it has not discouraged my from OC'ing if anything it gave me a little more confidence and experience with dealing with a LEO being stopped while OC'ing.

Just curious to see what the Livonia Police Chief has to say about the e-mail the MOC VP sent him. I wish I was a little better in my grammer too!! I was still amped up cause the stop just happened 5 minutes before! Actually I cut my ride short and turned around so I could post this thread ASAP!!!
Good!!!!!! Carry ON!!!
 

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
I did remember one thing "big time" (don't reach for your gun if he askes for it)
when he asked for my ID I felt uncomfortable reaching for my wallet and made sure he knew I was
armed which I knew he already did. I just wanted to make sure he knew and I knew I didn't want to get shot reaching for my wallet and him saying or thinking I was reaching for my gun!
IMO,He was harrassing you.You were already in the heightened awareness stage required to OC (safely carrying on your person).To cause you enough stress to make you shake for no other reason(he already knew you had a CPL?),was dispicable and uncalled for.You should file a complaint IMO,to stop it from happening to others! 0 tolerance !Responsible OC is a heavy responsibility and should not be taken lightly by anyone! CARRY ON!
 

T Mack

Regular Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
205
Location
Livonia, Michigan. USA
IMO,He was harrassing you.You were already in the heightened awareness stage required to OC (safely carrying on your person).To cause you enough stress to make you shake for no other reason(he already knew you had a CPL?),was dispicable and uncalled for.You should file a complaint IMO,to stop it from happening to others! 0 tolerance !Responsible OC is a heavy responsibility and should not be taken lightly by anyone! CARRY ON!

Sorry for a dumb question here but what does IMO stand for?!
 
Top