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Man shoots possible carjacker/prowler in Everett

BigDave

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I am not saying that one is to give a detailed statement but the basic facts of time, who, where, evidence and witnesses and a short statement of I was in fear for my life, he was grabbing inside my vehicle at me and I shot him in self defense.

i would agree with your advice, BUT
i would stop talking after "i was in fear for my life", i would not say why, and i would not yet invoke self defense.


ot i don't know how to underline, and i don't know how to make it stop, it was not intentional. Help?

Look for this icon top left of this window for Bold View attachment 3389and Italic View attachment 3390and of course Underline
underline.png


You made me go back and look at my post, I never mentioned to discuss Why.
This is the item I left out intentionally as this is where the attorney needs to be present.
Not only for ensuring you are not opening yourself for other issues but to have a witness other then the interrogator so things are not twisted and distorted.
 

1245A Defender

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sorry dave, i am not clear!

i would not tell the cops "he reached in my car at me'
i would not tell the cops "i shot him"
i would not tell the cops "in self defense"

these statement "can and will be used against you in a court of law"
these statements should be filtered thru my lawyer.
 

Ruby

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I'd call this self defense. The man did everything to avoid a confrontation. The bum/hobo/transient is the aggressor and was obviously already within the 21 feet required to take down the old guy before he could draw his weapon. Sure the old guy was in a truck but I don't think there's any way to really know if he was being attacked other than to add the sum of the entire confrontation together which equals one shot hobo.

It would really prove my point if this man gets convicted about allowing the State too much power.

Why do you think the agressor has to be within 21 feet? I have heard this before and as far as I know, this is not true. The 21 feet comes from the Tueller drill, in which he proved that an agressor can reach and attack someone in 1 and a half to 2 seconds from 21 feet away. I guan-damn-tee you if someone is shooting at me from 30 feet away, I'm not waiting for them to come closer to shoot back! Are you going to measure how far away an attacker is before you defend yourself?!? Aaaaaaaaaahhhhh, people, PLEASE get over this 21 feet stuff!
 

Ruby

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I'd call this self defense. The man did everything to avoid a confrontation. The bum/hobo/transient is the aggressor and was obviously already within the 21 feet required to take down the old guy before he could draw his weapon. Sure the old guy was in a truck but I don't think there's any way to really know if he was being attacked other than to add the sum of the entire confrontation together which equals one shot hobo.

It would really prove my point if this man gets convicted about allowing the State too much power.

I should add, even though I'm sure you know, an attacker only has to be close enough to pose a threat and be capable of carrying out that threat. That could be at 10 feet, 20 feet, or 50 feet if they have a rifle.
 

BigDave

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  1. i would not tell the cops "he reached in my car at me'
  2. i would not tell the cops "i shot him"
  3. i would not tell the cops "in self defense"
  4. these statement "can and will be used against you in a court of law"
these statements should be filtered thru my lawyer.

1. Did he reach in? what would change this after talking with an attorney?
2. Did you shoot him? How would that change after talking to your attorney?
3. Did you act in Self Defense, and again how would that change after talking to your attorney.
4.How can these statements be used against you, you acted within the law Right?

If you can respond with yes to all of these, what is the issue?

The Police roll up and you are sitting in the truck with a gun and the perpetrator is laying in a pool of blood in the store and you are not telling them you acted in self defense so they respond you just shot the man for no reason, which will be brought up in court.

So tell me how do you see this going bad for you by providing the basics? You are making statements but no supporting concepts.

The Statement of Shut Up and Lawyer Up is flawed there is some information that needs to be addressed at the scene such as who, what where and when AND LEAVE THE WHY OUT OF IT and this where the Shut up and Lawyer Up comes into play.
 

BigDave

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I should add, even though I'm sure you know, an attacker only has to be close enough to pose a threat and be capable of carrying out that threat. That could be at 10 feet, 20 feet, or 50 feet if they have a rifle.

Correct, the Tueller drill was designed to show the ability of someone being able to reach you by the time you draw your weapon.
Many leave out the concept of situation, surroundings, types of weapons and how this will increase or decrease the amount of time to pose a threat.

One must remember in the State of Washington one must be able articulate the perceived threat at that moment in time so the knife in hand could different distances and still apply.

IANAL but I slept at a holiday inn last night :lol: I had to add a little humor at the end.
 

1245A Defender

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i cant/wont argue with you, bigdave!

im not trying to be righter than you.
i am trying to tell other forum readers what "I" would talk over
with my lawyer before i stipulate to any testimony going to "state of my mind"!
 

BigDave

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im not trying to be righter than you.
i am trying to tell other forum readers what "I" would talk over
with my lawyer before i stipulate to any testimony going to "state of my mind"!

Ditto on the sentiment, I encourage everyone not to just take the word of someone on a forum in any matter but to seek out training and professional advice with a Firearms Attorney that deals with firearms issues and not a Public Defender nor just a Defense Attorney that has not dug into the depths of representing the innocent in a self defense case.

Thanks for the debate.
 

devildoc5

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I personally think I would say "I thought he was gonna hurt me and didnt know what to do"

Then talk to a lawyer. This IMO gives you the reasoning of self defense, but is not "clearly thought out and rehearsed"

I think the problem with cops and prosecutors is that if you say something along the lines of "he was within stricken distance and articulate a clear and present danger (no movie reference intended here)so I shot him in accordance with the law in self defense." They see that as "pre meditated" which is garbage, it just means you are knowledgeable. However i think this is where the problem would tend to come in.

Thus IMO if you were to say something like "I was scared for my life I didnt know what else to do." it seems more "genuine" and as we all know perception is 9/10ths.....

I guess what I am getting at is even though we all think through scenarios and sitchations all the time, this is one of those instances where it would do you some good to "appear" visibly shaken and concerned and scared. Not matter how much of a macho man you are.......
 
Last edited:

sirpuma

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People should try and remember a few things about situations like this. It is clear the victim was afraid, otherwise why draw and shoot. If someone is lunging into my vehicle, I'm shooting. I don't care if their intent is to reach in. A person can easily conceal a small yet still lethal knife and kill at close range. When someone is within arms reach, you don't have time to look them over and see whether or not they have a weapon or just what they are reaching for. One of my friends when I was in the service had a scar that ran from just behind his ear, down around his neck and all the way to his sternum. Some guy he didn't know ran up to him while he was in his car at a stop light and slashed him with a razor. He was lucky that he didn't get anything major cut, but it could have been much worse. He didn't have time to react, or judge what the guy was doing, he simply got cut. Thankfully he had a friend with him that called 911 and helped him.

When I went through firearms training for security, we were taught that the line to draw was 21 feet. The average person can cross 21 feet in under 3 seconds and stick a knife in you. We were taught that when an aggressive person was within 21 feet you should be preparing yourself for violence. If they look like they may be about to lunge at you, you should already have your side arm out and taking aim.

The shooter could very well have feared that he was in imminent danger. In my opinion, this shooting is justified. But then again, I'm not a lawyer.
 

1245A Defender

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thanx for catching that for me ruby!

It isn't either, it's SITUATIONS! LOL Love the spelling on this forum!
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by 1245A Defender
please watch your spelling, it isnt sitchations, it is sitchyations!

its important that even misspelled/madeup words have the proper number of sylables sp..
I put the correctly necessary "Y" into the word, thereby adding the necessary 4th sylable sp..
 

1245A Defender

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training!

Yep! LOL and DevilDoc was at the forum 'training' on Saturday.

Change to the 'Enhanced' editor, download the spell check and use it!

i got spell check too! trouble is, it will only tell me when i am wrong, it will not tell me how to do it right!
i so wish i could spell better, and i do look up words often, but my short term memory will have nothing to do with it.
i am too busy trying to learn how to read, and understand some of the laws, and the drivel
that is meant to convey important ideas and sitchyations that happen to folks around this forum.
when i am done studying how to understand, i am going to start studying my numbers!
numbers are as important as the ABCs.

did you know that unalienable is not in my dictionary? but is in the constitution. inalienable is in my dictionary, but not in the constitution?
little known fact!, they mean the same thing. who knew?
 

cynicist

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1st degree assault is a felony in WA.

Assault 1 is already a Class A felony, which you can get life for, not to mention the firearm enhancement. Considering this guys age, he already risks spending the rest of his life in prison.

I've been off here for a while, I'll have to catch up on the rest of this debate.
Hell, mandatory minimums for drugs have decreased usage and sales and profitability and drug-violence, so it should work on firearms too.

There was a time in this country when the purpose of prison was to reform the individual so that they would not be a danger when they got out, instead of just taking revenge on them.
 

END_THE_FED

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Yep! LOL and DevilDoc was at the forum 'training' on Saturday.

Change to the 'Enhanced' editor, download the spell check and use it!



Also if anyone uses firefox it has a spell check I think it is built in but it may be an add on.
I have not used Internet explorer in years but they probably have a spell check plug in.

the old forum had a spell check button near the text window but most people didn't use it
 

END_THE_FED

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i got spell check too! trouble is, it will only tell me when i am wrong, it will not tell me how to do it right!
i so wish i could spell better, and i do look up words often, but my short term memory will have nothing to do with it.
i am too busy trying to learn how to read, and understand some of the laws, and the drivel
that is meant to convey important ideas and sitchyations that happen to folks around this forum.
when i am done studying how to understand, i am going to start studying my numbers!
numbers are as important as the ABCs.

did you know that unalienable is not in my dictionary? but is in the constitution. inalienable is in my dictionary, but not in the constitution?
little known fact!, they mean the same thing. who knew?



When the spell check alerts you that a word is misspelled (usually with a red squiggly line under the word) you should be able to "right click" the word and a list of close matches should pop up.

The constitution has a lot of words that are "misspelled" but most of them are just the old preferred spelling like the word Labor is spelled Labour.

I don't think inalienable or unalienable is anywhere in the constitution. You are thinking of the Deceleration of Independence.
Yes they mean the same thing some dictionaries have both.
 

1245A Defender

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thank you end the fed

i didnt know, and havent chacked this feature of the spell checker function,,,, didnt know...
the words in the constitution ,,or the declaration were never a question untill your mention.
i guess i have more study to do,


a soon as i have i have studied my numbers today
 
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