Marie Claire - Girls with guns

[Jack House]

Instead I ask you to argue that the right to self-defense is a natural right-one meant for any law abiding citizen; Chrsitian, Hindu, atheist, Wiccan, oppressed, entitled, male, female, and anyone else I missed.

Don't forget Martians! :lol:

I agree, though. But religious arguments like this can help when debating with a Christian.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

Don't forget Martians! :lol:

I agree, though. But religious arguments like this can help when debating with a Christian.

Yea, but what argument would you use with a Nihilist?--that's what I thought.:shocker:

I was wondering why there were so many Scripture quotes. It seems there is, and can be a general argument made for why a person ought to carry, and why self-defense is a Natural Right.

 

[Haz.]

If you're a Christian and believe that self-defense is a God given right, I can appreciate that.

But when talking about 2A rights with others, please refrain from using religion to make your argument. 2A rights aren't meant just for Christians, they're meant for everyone. For someone from another faith, or an atheist like myself, that argument is going to fall on deaf ears. Instead I ask you to argue that the right to self-defense is a natural right-one meant for any law abiding citizen; Chrsitian, Hindu, atheist, Wiccan, oppressed, entitled, male, female, and anyone else I missed.

SovereignAxe.
Here is why I quote Scriptures and will continue to do so where I see the necessity. Last time I looked America and Australia were predominately Christian countries. Australia is a Christian country and is at this time led by a single athiest Prim Minister who had an affair with a married man, then left him and is now living with her boyfriend in the Lodge and who cares?? Not I, and Australia is still a Christian country with Christian beliefs and ideals.

The reason I use Scriptures in promoting self defence and even the death penalty, both which are being constantly attacked by all and sundry, including Christians is because God Himself ordained self defence and the death penalty.

Many so called Christians are calling for the abolition of the death penalty in countries where it is still law. They do so without knowing the very book they allegedly believe in and which was inspired by God Himself. They quote Scripture in their argument, four in fact and these are the four Scriptures which teach, "Thou shalt not kill." Exodus 20:13; Deuteronomy 5:21; Matthew 5:21; and Romans 13:9. Feel free to look them up!

What these Christians deliberately ignore if they in fact know this is that God made an EVERLASTING covenant with Noah after the flood which instructs mankind and governement that if someone ignores the commandment "Thou shalt not kill," then man has the right to defend himself and government has the command which states that the blood of anyone deliberatly killed shall be avenged by the shedding of the murderes blood.

When God instituted human government by law after Noah's flood, He gave Noah certain laws by which to govern the human race, and man was then held responsible for self-government (Gen. 9:1-7).

There are six very important laws which God gave Noah and his decendants. These Laws were:

(1) "Be fruitful and multply, and replenish the earth" (Gen. 9:1, 7).

(2) "Into thine hand are they [animals] delivered" (Gen. 9:2).

(3) "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have i given you all things" (Gen. 9:4).

(4) "The blood thereof shall ye not eat" (Gen. 9:4).

(5) "WHOSOEVER SHEDDETH MAN'S BLOOD, BY MAN SHALL HIS BLOOD BY SHED: for in the image of God made he him" (Gen. 9:5-6).

And last but not least;
(6) "I have established my covenant with you . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . FOR PERPETUAL GENERATIONS . . . the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the "EVERLASTING COVENANT" between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth" (Gen. 9:8-17).

These few laws have been the basis of all laws of God and man in every age since the flood of Noah.
It was at this time God constituted capital punishment, and God has never revoked this particular law, "Whosoever sheddeth man's blood, BY MAN shall HIS BLOOD BE SHED (Gen. 9:5-6)." This law will continue as an eternal law, and as is revealed in (Isiah 11:4-9; 65:20-25).

If one believes God, He created all men and if men decided to worship other god's then thats between them, their god, and the real; God Himself, not me? Gods laws and commandments were made for all men regardless of race, color or belief.

Now I am not preaching to athiests of which I once was, in fact I studied the Bible thoroughly for over ten years trying vainlessly to DISSPROVE IT AS A BOOK FULL OF man made FAIRY STORIES and I have failed miserably!

Remember the 2A was framed by the very men who staunchly believed in God and the Bible so Americans can and still do thank them for their efforts.

George Washington
1st U.S. President

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

John Adams
2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."
--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.

Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."
--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

John Hancock
1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."
--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.

Benjamin Franklin
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Unites States Constitution

"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

"That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;

"But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
--Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790.

Cheers, Haz.

 

[SovereignAxe]

Don't forget Martians! :lol:

I agree, though. But religious arguments like this can help when debating with a Christian.

Oh yes, definitely.

And, Haz, I think that's where you missed my point. If you know that the person you're talking to is a Christian, by all means go ahead and use scripture for your argument. It will only help you in your cause, and 61% of the time (according to the 2011 Australian Census) you will be talking to a Christian. 22% of the time you will be talking to a non-believer, and you have just over a 2% chance of speaking to Buddhist or Muslim citizens.

If you use that same scripture on someone like me, or the 39% of Australians that don't follow that faith, it would be like me trying to convince you of something because it's written in the text of the ancient greek gods, or the Qur'an, or any of the others. I'm sure both you and I can agree that all of these texts have a few passages that we could relate to, but anyone that's on the fence about the self-defense issue and doesn't follow the Christian faith isn't going to be swayed by something they see as ancient mythology.

 

[Jack House]

You know, the last thing I want is new gun laws expanding our rights based on Christian fundamentals. The thought scares me. :uhoh:

Yea, but what argument would you use with a Nihilist?--that's what I thought.:shocker:

I was wondering why there were so many Scripture quotes. It seems there is, and can be a general argument made for why a person ought to carry, and why self-defense is a Natural Right.

Easily, what kind of nihilist are we talking about?

 

[Haz.]

Oh yes, definitely.

And, Haz, I think that's where you missed my point. If you know that the person you're talking to is a Christian, by all means go ahead and use scripture for your argument. It will only help you in your cause, and 61% of the time (according to the 2011 Australian Census) you will be talking to a Christian. 22% of the time you will be talking to a non-believer, and you have just over a 2% chance of speaking to Buddhist or Muslim citizens.

If you use that same scripture on someone like me, or the 39% of Australians that don't follow that faith, it would be like me trying to convince you of something because it's written in the text of the ancient greek gods, or the Qur'an, or any of the others. I'm sure both you and I can agree that all of these texts have a few passages that we could relate to, but anyone that's on the fence about the self-defense issue and doesn't follow the Christian faith isn't going to be swayed by something they see as ancient mythology.

Hi mate.

I agree, but there are many politicians in the US and Aus, who are avid anti-firearms are church going Christians and they seem to know more than their God has revealed? Thou shalt no kill, thou shalt turn the other cheek, gentle Jesus meek and mild and every other kind of BS!

I am not trying to convince you or anyone here or anywhere else to believe in any religion. I do get a lot of Christians, as I said who are very anti firearms and against the death penalty and I use their faith, their good book, their beliefs to press home the very fact that God, believe in Him or not, is not against firearms or any form of self defence and has ordained the death penalty. Yes, the majority of Australians are Christians, and yesm the majority of sheeple in Australia are against firearms, gun pwnership, are for stricter gun controls and I use every tactic I know to fight these ideas, especially if they dredge up their, "Thou shalt no kill" scripture. Thats all.

They become very annoying down under. They door knock annoying me and my neighbours trying to jam the bible down my and others throats. I tell them its against their religion to door knock and annoy people and go home and read Luke 10:7. They say God said to go out and preach the gosple! I answer yesm but He also says, "Go not from house to house!" It teaches they are only to go where they are invited!

 

[cabledawg]

Haz, I think you and I would be really good friends. Maybe you should move to Ohio........

Axe, I dont think Haz is trying to use scripture to turn the non-believing gun owner, but to show the so-called Bible thumpers that they are wrong in thier interpretation of the Bible. Unfortunately, everyone has thier opinion of what they read in the Good Book.