Maryland a scary place

[countryclubjoe]

The 21st century technology is turning law abiding citizens into criminals.. Also keep in mind that leo view their encounters with all citizens as the citizen being a criminal. This is another reason to keep your mouth shut during encounters with LEO. Turn the table on them force them into being the bullies they are. Make sure video camera is and recording is on..

My .02

Best regards

CCJ

 

[riverrat10k]

Regarding probable cause and reasonable articulable suspicion......

...would having Colorado plates on your car be PC or RAS for a traffic stop for suspicion of a marjauna in a neighboring state?

How about re-entering your state from Colorado?

"GPS shows you were in Colorado, sir. What were you doing there and do you have anything you purchased there in your posession?"

 

[Grapeshot]

...would having Colorado plates on your car be PC or RAS for a traffic stop for suspicion of a marjauna in a neighboring state?

How about re-entering your state from Colorado?

"GPS shows you were in Colorado, sir. What were you doing there and do you have anything you purchased there in your posession?"

If in Maryland - step out of your vehicle & put your hands behind your back. We shall now search your vehicle for any hidden compartments.

Are spare tires "hidden compartments"?

 

[countryclubjoe]

First off, never exist the vehicle.. Second, State that you do not consent to any searchers. Third, Remain silent...

Be a kind humble citizen while exercising your rights and make the LEO feel safe. If Leo persist in being a bully then you let them be a bully..

My .02

Best regards.

CCJ

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

First off, never exit the vehicle.. [Unless the officer tells you to get out.]
Second, State that you do not consent to any searches. [State it clearly, state it often, state it on tape.]
Third, Remain silent...[And make sure your passengers heed the same advice regardless of threat or entreaty.]

Had to correct the first one, if the officer commands you to get out, Get Out. You're either going to step out or get dragged out. Remaining in the vehicle when told to exit is just as threatening to the officer as getting out without being told. Aside from that minor quibble, great advice.

 

[TFred]

Another update from The Conservative Treehouse. If anyone can fish this out, they can.

Be sure to read the comments, the author provides some additional information in response to questions.

Maryland LEO is denying all requests, of course, who could expect any less?

TFred

The Curious Case of John Filippidis – Maryland Transportation Authority Police Official Response To Our Public Records Request

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Gee, I wonder who they are investigating? Mr Filippidis, the man who was sent on his way with a simple warning?
Or .................?

Should Mr. F file a civil suit, that reluctance is not going to matter one whit.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Had to correct the first one, if the officer commands you to get out, Get Out. You're either going to step out or get dragged out. Remaining in the vehicle when told to exit is just as threatening to the officer as getting out without being told. Aside from that minor quibble, great advice.

Hi Fallschirmijager

The reason I say stay in the vehicle is; just like they need a warrant to enter your home and remove you from the home, they also need a warrant to separate you from your vehicle.. While you are in your vehicle, you are in your property, hence the warrant is needed..

Fallschirmijager, I always enjoy Motting with you... and I value your post.

Thank you and best regards.

CCJ

 

[Primus]

Hi Fallschirmijager

The reason I say stay in the vehicle is; just like they need a warrant to enter your home and remove you from the home, they also need a warrant to separate you from your vehicle.. While you are in your vehicle, you are in your property, hence the warrant is needed..

Fallschirmijager, I always enjoy Motting with you... and I value your post.

Thank you and best regards.

CCJ

Can you please cite that statement about needing a warrant to get you out of the vehicle?

In MA you don't. Its called an "exit order" and usually done for officer safety as many on here have already stated.

Also your statement "your in your property, hence the warrant is needed" is also incorrect. There are ways/reasons/cases to arrest you from your domicile especially just your property(land) without a warrant.


Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[SouthernBoy]

First off, never exist the vehicle.. Second, State that you do not consent to any searchers. Third, Remain silent...

Be a kind humble citizen while exercising your rights and make the LEO feel safe. If Leo persist in being a bully then you let them be a bully..

My .02

Best regards.

CCJ

You left out two things. Record them then take them to court. Also, if you do exit your vehicle, make sure to take you keys, have the windows closed, and lock your door.

 

[Grapeshot]

You left out two things. Record them then take them to court. Also, if you do exit your vehicle, make sure to take you keys, have the windows closed, and lock your door.

Suggest locking the keys inside.......and have an extra key hidden on the vehicle.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Can you please cite that statement about needing a warrant to get you out of the vehicle?

In MA you don't. Its called an "exit order" and usually done for officer safety as many on here have already stated.

Also your statement "your in your property, hence the warrant is needed" is also incorrect. There are ways/reasons/cases to arrest you from your domicile especially just your property(land) without a warrant.


Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

What about citizen safety? I am familiar with the "exit order" and we all have heard the term for officers safety.. I find it interesting that officer safety is put in a higher regard then the citizens safety, even tho the officer is wearing a fire arm and has plenty of back up bullies that are also wearing weapons..

Lets you and I play cop and citizen on a vehicle stop. Ok you can be the cop and I will be the law abiding traveling citizen..

Officer- Do you know why I am stopping you sir?
Citizen- No sir, why are you detaining me?
Officer- You were going 65 in a 55 mile speed limit area, let me see your DL and vehicle registration and insurance information.
Citizen- No disrespect to your authority sir, however I disagree with your claim. I also reserve all my rights and I will not surrender any of my personal property to you for inspection. Am I being detained?

Officer Primus- What say you-???????

Looking forward to your reply.

Regards

CCJ

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

I'm not Primus, for which we're probably both grateful... but I'll take a shot...

Officer- Do you know why I am stopping you sir?
Citizen- No sir, why are you detaining me?
Officer- You were going 65 in a 55 mile speed limit area, let me see your DL and vehicle registration and insurance information.
Citizen- No disrespect to your authority sir, however I disagree with your claim. I also reserve all my rights and I will not surrender any of my personal property to you for inspection. Am I being detained?

Long version...
"Yes, sir, you Are being detained. Due to my training and experience, and the little radar detector in my car, I can reasonably suspect you have exceeded the posted speed limit by an amount sufficient that it has become a traffic infraction. You should also note that as a resident of the great state of New Jersey you are commanded under the authority of New Jersey Statutes and Codes, section 39.3-29 to exhibit your license and insurance identification card, and your registration certificate to me while I am in the performance of my duties.

Should you refuse to do so and have some other means to identify yourself I will use that identification to write the ticket and add the above charge. If you have no identification or no wish to produce any, then I have probable cause to effect your arrest and bring you before a magistrate. Should you refuse to exhibit your license to the magistrate you may be found in violation of NJSC 39.5-27.

Fortunately, the law allows me to offer you the once in a lifetime, no backsies, opportunity to give your signature as bond on the citation I am writing. It is not an admission of guilt, I don't determine such things on the side of the road. It is merely your promise that you will appear in court if you desire to contest the ticket. Should you not wish to contest the ticket, there is a number on the back that you can call to find the specific details of the penalties.

Which would you prefer, sir, arrest or bond?"


Short version...
"Sign the ticket, or I arrest you now and take you to jail to be identified there."

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

The reason I say stay in the vehicle is; just like they need a warrant to enter your home and remove you from the home, they also need a warrant to separate you from your vehicle.. While you are in your vehicle, you are in your property, hence the warrant is needed..

Well,.. you see.. the thing is, a car is not like a house. A car has wheels (normally) and is highly mobile. Therefore the court has ruled that because it is not a house and because it is mobile there are a few rules that do not apply.

One of those rules is that the police may (with reasonable suspicion and for cause) remove a driver from a car to prevent him from escaping. They may also (again, reasonable and for cause) separate him from the car to prevent him from quickly reaching for any weapon that may be used against them. THEORETICALLY, once a driver has been prevented from accessing any quickly reached weapon, the search may not progress further.
If the driver is still within a reasonable distance from an accessible car, the officers may make a search for weapons that might be within arms reach of the driver.
If the driver is in handcuffs and locked in the back seat of a police car, officers may only search for evidence that is related to the stop/arrest. There is a case where evidence was suppressed because it was found when doing a 'weapons search' while the driver was so detained.

The assertion that the 'police need a warrant to enter a home or remove someone from it' is faulty. The police may enter a home without a warrant under exigent circumstances. Additionally, if the police observe a crime and see the suspected perpetrator enter a residence, they do not need a warrant.

 

[Blk97F150]

Long version...
"Yes, sir, you Are being detained. Due to my training and experience, and the little radar detector in my car, I can reasonably suspect you have exceeded the posted speed limit by an amount sufficient that it has become a traffic infraction. You should also note that as a resident of the great state of New Jersey you are commanded under the authority of New Jersey Statutes and Codes, section 39.3-29 to exhibit your license and insurance identification card, and your registration certificate to me while I am in the performance of my duties.

Here we go again.... a guy from Georgia posting about the laws in New Jersey in a thread about Maryland..... on the Virginia forum.

 

[Primus]

What about citizen safety? I am familiar with the "exit order" and we all have heard the term for officers safety.. I find it interesting that officer safety is put in a higher regard then the citizens safety, even tho the officer is wearing a fire arm and has plenty of back up bullies that are also wearing weapons..

Lets you and I play cop and citizen on a vehicle stop. Ok you can be the cop and I will be the law abiding traveling citizen..

Officer- Do you know why I am stopping you sir?
Citizen- No sir, why are you detaining me?
Officer- You were going 65 in a 55 mile speed limit area, let me see your DL and vehicle registration and insurance information.
Citizen- No disrespect to your authority sir, however I disagree with your claim. I also reserve all my rights and I will not surrender any of my personal property to you for inspection. Am I being detained?

Officer Primus- What say you-???????

Looking forward to your reply.

Regards

CCJ

You would be then asked your name and dob. If you refused that you would be arrested.

If you complied and gave me your name and date of birth but not the other items then I'd cite you for not having your registration and license in possession along with the 10 over. If your vehicle wasn't insured it'd get towed and you'd be cited.

Then I would hand you your citation for the above offenses and I would wish you a good night sir and move on.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[Primus]

Well,.. you see.. the thing is, a car is not like a house. A car has wheels (normally) and is highly mobile. Therefore the court has ruled that because it is not a house and because it is mobile there are a few rules that do not apply.

One of those rules is that the police may (with reasonable suspicion and for cause) remove a driver from a car to prevent him from escaping. They may also (again, reasonable and for cause) separate him from the car to prevent him from quickly reaching for any weapon that may be used against them. THEORETICALLY, once a driver has been prevented from accessing any quickly reached weapon, the search may not progress further.
If the driver is still within a reasonable distance from an accessible car, the officers may make a search for weapons that might be within arms reach of the driver.
If the driver is in handcuffs and locked in the back seat of a police car, officers may only search for evidence that is related to the stop/arrest. There is a case where evidence was suppressed because it was found when doing a 'weapons search' while the driver was so detained.

The assertion that the 'police need a warrant to enter a home or remove someone from it' is faulty. The police may enter a home without a warrant under exigent circumstances. Additionally, if the police observe a crime and see the suspected perpetrator enter a residence, they do not need a warrant.

Nailed it falls... well explained.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Here we go again.... a guy from Georgia posting about the laws in New Jersey in a thread about Maryland..... on the Virginia forum.

Well, CountryClubJoe is from the great state of New Jersey so I assumed that his chances of being pulled over are greatest in his native state.
However, if the fine gentleman from the Old Dominion wishes, I can do the same with the laws of Virginia. Wanna give it a go?

 

[Fallschirjmäger]

Long version...

"Yes, sir, you Are being detained. Due to my training and experience, and the little radar detector in my car, I can reasonably suspect you have exceeded the posted speed limit by an amount sufficient that it has become a traffic infraction. You should also note that as a resident of the great state of Virginia you are commanded under the authority of Virginia Code § 46.2-104 exhibit your registration card and driver's license, learner's permit, or temporary driver's permit.

If you do not have your license on you and your signature matches another document that allows me to determine your identity, you will be ticketed for an additional traffic infraction and if found guilty fined a penalty of ten dollars.

I am issuing you a citation under the authority of § 46.2-945 and you may give your bond by signing the citation. In the absence of the your written promise, I shall proceed according to the provisions of § 46.2-940 and treat this infraction as a misdemeanor. As I have every reason to believe you will disregard this summons and you have refused to give me your written promise to appear, you shall be promptly taken before a magistrate.

Fortunately, the law allows me to offer you the once in a lifetime, no backsies, opportunity to give your signature as bond on the citation I am writing. It is not an admission of guilt, I don't determine such things on the side of the road. It is merely your promise that you will appear in court if you desire to contest the ticket. Should you not wish to contest the ticket, there is a number on the back that you can call to find the specific details of the penalties.

Which would you prefer, sir, to give your bond or to be promptly taken before the magistrate?

Short version...

"Sign the ticket, or I arrest you now and take you to jail."

 

[countryclubjoe]

Long version...
"Yes, sir, you Are being detained. Due to my training and experience, and the little radar detector in my car, I can reasonably suspect you have exceeded the posted speed limit by an amount sufficient that it has become a traffic infraction. You should also note that as a resident of the great state of Virginia you are commanded under the authority of Virginia Code § 46.2-104 exhibit your registration card and driver's license, learner's permit, or temporary driver's permit.

If you do not have your license on you and your signature matches another document that allows me to determine your identity, you will be ticketed for an additional traffic infraction and if found guilty fined a penalty of ten dollars.

Should you refuse to identify yourself to my satisfaction by any authorized means, this infraction will be treated as a misdemeanor under § 46.2-937.

Should refuse to provide identification and to sign the citation, I will have probable cause to arrest you and you will be taken before a magistrate under the authority of § 46.2-940.

Fortunately, the law allows me to offer you the once in a lifetime, no backsies, opportunity to give your signature as bond on the citation I am writing. It is not an admission of guilt, I don't determine such things on the side of the road. It is merely your promise that you will appear in court if you desire to contest the ticket. Should you not wish to contest the ticket, there is a number on the back that you can call to find the specific details of the penalties.

Which would you prefer, sir, arrest or bond?"


Short version...
"Sign the ticket, or I arrest you now and take you to jail to be identified there."

Hi FullS

Good post, however you need to read this case.. Miller v United States, F 2d 486.489...

"The claim and exercise of a Constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime"

Best regards

CCJ