imported post
smellslikemichigan wrote:
i met with the marysville chief of police this morning. he reached out to me privately over 2 weeks ago and asked me to come in and speak to him man to man. i was touched by his gesture so i agreed, but i had to wait until i came back from vacation.
we sat in his office for almost 40 minutes and had a fantastic discussion. he came off as a very reasonable and intelligent individual. there were points we discussed that we ended up agreeing to disagree upon, but it was still very friendly.
out of mutual respect, i did not record the conversation. i didn't want to come across as aggressive and felt that the tape recorder would have, perhaps, made him less willing to speak freely. i feel that the whole experience was, overall, a posative learning experience for the marysville pd and i truly believe that in the future OC situations will be handled quit differently.
i was encouraged that the chief did concede that certain aspects of the encounter were not handle correctly. i don't want to get into a lot of details because i feel that a mutual respect was established and some trust was earned. i do not intend to rake the marysville pd through the muck.
i do not OC to get a reaction out of people. nor do i do it to try and "get rich" by taking someone to court. that's not to say that i don't think it's warrented in some cases (the chris fetters civil rights lawsuit would be one that i agree with).
I'm glad you followed up with the comment on Chris Fetters. I get tired of hearing people associate the idea of suing LE agency's and officers as just a scheme to get rich, thereby degrading the practice as less than honorable. It's disgusting!
The fact that LEO's are trampling peoples rights in this area so fearlessly is an indication of a culture among LE agency's in general that they know they can get away with such practice. They don't fear repercussions of the practice, and the best way to put a stop to such practice is to take them to court. Sometimes complaining to the higher ups does work, and it's always a good way to go, but there are other times when it should be skipped altogether. Take the example of Flint. One member was told, "Didn't you get the warning?" after the officer acknowledged that OC is legal. That comment demonstrates that the message was, "even though we all know it's legal, We (read that paticular agency's officers) are going to do anything we can to discourage the practice, and if that means trampling your rights, then so be it." It was nothing less than thug like intimidation, and should be met with a righteous law suite that puts that paticular officer searching for another line of work. Dispicable.
I usderstand that some people are not in a position to seek out such actions, and that's their individual decission to make. Some people can't afford the legal bills involved (even though they get it back eventually, it's still an expensive process), and they know this. (That's why the majority of people in prison are fromt the poorer segments of society. People like to point out that certain minority groups make up the larger segments of the prison population, but ignore the aspect that it's generally because they are from a poorer society, which not only breeds more crime, but also makes them more vulnerable to the legal system due to that financial status.) They know that for most people, it's easier and cheaper to just go along to get along.
Lawsuites in these cases are not only NOT unwarranted, but are in fact effective. It isn't like these are gray areas. These are clear violations of civil rights that have already been ruled on by the higher courts. Preemption is indusputable in Michigan. Because of this, Grand Haven did not have a legal leg to stand on. That's why the had to drop/dismiss (I forget which one it is) charges. Likewise, they really don't have any legal protection for the liability they put themselves in. That is also why previous cases have been settled out of court instead of going to court. There was even a quote from teh city attorney in the Atlanta (I believe) case stating that it was cheaper to settle than to go to court and then have to pay for the citizens legal fees.
When officers demonstrate a clear disdain toward civil rights, they it becomes necessary to use whatever (legal) means available to discourage that behavior. They laugh at complaints, because that process does not affect them, while at the same time makes any case against them more difficult. That Flint officer know's he's violating someones rights, but he knows he can get away with it because there have already been attempts at "education" (or complaints) and he's still out there harassing OC'ers. THAT PATICULAR OFFICER NEEDS TO BE THROWN OFF THE FORCE, FOR THE BETTERMENT OF SOCIETY! Such intinidation of law abiding citizens should NOT be treated with kid gloves. He isn't "making a "mistake" in the intrest of public safety", he is trying to bully a law abiding citizen, and that should be unacceptable.
We even have a lawyer who fights for firearms rights within this state who has said that he has had officers tell him that they will try to watch OC'ers loading/unloading by their car so that they can (falsely) arrest them for brandishing. This is a clear intention to not only circumvent the law, but also to supress civil rights of individual citizens. These paticular officers need no "education" on the legalities of OC. The education they need is to learn that it willl be financialy painful, and a bad career move to step on citizens civil rights. Until that happens, the abuse of authority will continue. These aren't cops, they are criminal thugs, and should be treated as such. "Eductaing" them only teachs them lessons, and they will use those lessons to further abuse the rights of law abiding citizens.
This mentality that suing the officers for such atrocious actions, is less than honorable, has got to cease. Good cops don't do these things, and those suites are not frivolous, they are necessary for the betterment of society. There are lots of good men and women waiting in line to become servants of our great society. Untill the bad ones are weeded out, the good ones won't have as good a chance.
