Murray vs. Rossi

[sudden valley gunner]

Compared to you, Dick Cheney is a left wing lib

Nothing wrong with being a left-winger or a right-winger...not everyone can be a squeak

When you are a liberty loving constitutionalist all of you are left wingers ( if you believe in the false paradigm of the left/right scale.

The party that split in 1824 and both have been steadily "progressing" toward tyranny ever since.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

both have been steadily "progressing" toward tyranny ever since.

Mark this one on the calendar, we both agree:banana:

Something does need to be done about it...although, i think we both agree that there is tyranny, we probably disagree on what should stay and what should leave LOL. If Americans continue to facilitate the behavior of our politicians by electing them in, we are going to wake to a very different America in the coming years, that neither side is going to be too happy about.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Mark this one on the calendar, we both agree:banana:

Something does need to be done about it...although, i think we both agree that there is tyranny, we probably disagree on what should stay and what should leave LOL. If Americans continue to facilitate the behavior of our politicians by electing them in, we are going to wake to a very different America in the coming years, that neither side is going to be too happy about.

Should I mark it in red or blue> LOL. I do agree the patriot act needs to go but I am with universal health care needing to go too.

By the way Sarah glad to have you back on, stirring the pot with our polar opposite anti establishment viewpoints. Hope you your wife and kids are in better spirits and all is well. If you are still RVing somewhere and happen to be in Westport this summer when I go surfing there we'll have to have the families together at the beach or grab a cup of Joe.

P.S. Sunset America is a great spot to camp or RV in Westport been going there for years, clean close to beaches and just great folks running the place.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

Should I mark it in red or blue> LOL. I do agree the patriot act needs to go but I am with universal health care needing to go too.

By the way Sarah glad to have you back on, stirring the pot with our polar opposite anti establishment viewpoints. Hope you your wife and kids are in better spirits and all is well. If you are still RVing somewhere and happen to be in Westport this summer when I go surfing there we'll have to have the families together at the beach or grab a cup of Joe.

P.S. Sunset America is a great spot to camp or RV in Westport been going there for years, clean close to beaches and just great folks running the place.

I agree, universal health care needs to go...further LOL. Anything Patriot Act related should be gone. Just my opinion, if someone plots against Americans, they should be shot on site...no Gitmo, no court, just shot until they are dead. Definitely tighter borders, that is one thing I do not agree with the left about, I think that illegals, that's right, I called them ILLEGALS should be sent back to where they came from, and not allowed to utilize the services offered to American citizens...that being said, I just made a general statement about a complex issue. It is the blief of some organizations that encourage illegal immigration that this soil the USA is on is not American soil, it is Mexican soil...I disagree, a war was fought and we won--but now an illegal migration is being waged and it appears that we are losing BIG TIME!

Our little trip to Utah has been extended indefinitely...the ocean will probably wait until Spring. I think that we have stayed at Sunset America. All is much better...sometimes it's nice to get away from things for a while and take a breath, a long deep breath.

 

[Metalhead47]

I agree, universal health care needs to go...further LOL. Anything Patriot Act related should be gone. Just my opinion, if someone plots against Americans, they should be shot on site...no Gitmo, no court, just shot until they are dead. Definitely tighter borders, that is one thing I do not agree with the left about, I think that illegals, that's right, I called them ILLEGALS should be sent back to where they came from, and not allowed to utilize the services offered to American citizens...that being said, I just made a general statement about a complex issue. It is the blief of some organizations that encourage illegal immigration that this soil the USA is on is not American soil, it is Mexican soil...I disagree, a war was fought and we won--but now an illegal migration is being waged and it appears that we are losing BIG TIME!

Our little trip to Utah has been extended indefinitely...the ocean will probably wait until Spring. I think that we have stayed at Sunset America. All is much better...sometimes it's nice to get away from things for a while and take a breath, a long deep breath.

So you're saying warrantless wiretaps, et al, are bad, and a better idea is summary execution upon mere suspicion of malice, without interrogation or tribunal?
:uhoh:

You don't find that the least bit hypocritical or even counterproductive?

 

[nofoa]

I voted for Rossi because i got a little NRA thing in the mail that said they endorsed him. I don't watch TV News. All important, relevant information can easily be had on the interwebz.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

So you're saying warrantless wiretaps, et al, are bad, and a better idea is summary execution upon mere suspicion of malice, without interrogation or tribunal?
:uhoh:

You don't find that the least bit hypocritical or even counterproductive?

Warrant-less wiretaps are bad, yes. Shooting a terrorist dead, very good. Interrogation doesn't work, at least Bush's form which involved actually torturing the people violently and sexually...in short, I do not think that raping Arabs is going to elicit anyone one of them to confess, they have 70-some-odd virgin awaiting them on the other side; would you talk?

In war we should not take prisoners, only fill body bags.

 

[Metalhead47]

Warrant-less wiretaps are bad, yes. Shooting a terrorist dead, very good. Interrogation doesn't work, at least Bush's form which involved actually torturing the people violently and sexually...in short, I do not think that raping Arabs is going to elicit anyone one of them to confess, they have 70-some-odd virgin awaiting them on the other side; would you talk?

In war we should not take prisoners, only fill body bags.

Do a little independent reading S. The information we got from interrogations both prevented attacks AND caught a bunch of those responsible. Interrogation has a long history of, well, WORKING. Waterboarding is NOT torture. Unpleasant, yes, but hardly torture. As to prisoners getting raped? Seriously? Can you come back with a single cite that any detainee was raped at all, let alone as an "officially sanctioned" interrogation technique?

And without any interrogation, how are we supposed to know who's a terrorist and who's a goat farmer forced at gunpoint to harbor them?

You sound so rational in other statements, then you go on with this liberal kook-aid stuff. I don't get it.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

Do a little independent reading S. The information we got from interrogations both prevented attacks AND caught a bunch of those responsible. Interrogation has a long history of, well, WORKING. Waterboarding is NOT torture. Unpleasant, yes, but hardly torture. As to prisoners getting raped? Seriously? Can you come back with a single cite that any detainee was raped at all, let alone as an "officially sanctioned" interrogation technique?

And without any interrogation, how are we supposed to know who's a terrorist and who's a goat farmer forced at gunpoint to harbor them?

You sound so rational in other statements, then you go on with this liberal kook-aid stuff. I don't get it.

"Rape" was a strong work, more like sexual assault, does that sound better? Abu, having nude men pose in sexual positions with one another, that is sexual assault. I know what your rebut will be, that Bush had nothing to do with that, Obviously, I beg to differ. "Officially sanctioned" is the key phrase in this. We both know that there are official and unofficial acts of conduct and policies.

By default I must be intoxicated with kool-aid if we disagree, I get it

 

[Metalhead47]

"Rape" was a strong work, more like sexual assault, does that sound better? Abu, having nude men pose in sexual positions with one another, that is sexual assault. I know what your rebut will be, that Bush had nothing to do with that, Obviously, I beg to differ. "Officially sanctioned" is the key phrase in this. We both know that there are official and unofficial acts of conduct and policies.

By default I must be intoxicated with kool-aid if we disagree, I get it

Not at all. Some (most?) of the arguments you make, even when I disagree with them, are completely rational. Then ya go & pull something like this.

Ok, now I know what incidents you are speaking of. And like you said yourself, they were not "officially sanctioned," and IIRC the soldiers involved were investigated & disciplined. The part where you say "yeah that's what they say, but we all know...." is where you leave the land of rationality for a detour throu KoolAde land.:uhoh:

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

The part where you say "yeah that's what they say, but we all know...."

Ahhh, I see what you're saying now. What you are saying is that if it is not official than it doesn't exist. And you act like you don't drink the kool-aid

 

[Metalhead47]

Ahhh, I see what you're saying now. What you are saying is that if it is not official than it doesn't exist. And you act like you don't drink the kool-aid

No, what I'm saying is that when something is a blasted all over the media as the Abu incidents, including the investigations, hand wringing, and final punishment of those involved, where even the biased media is acknowledging they were isolated incidents perpetrated by individuals and not sanctioned or condoned at any level of the chain of command, and you still attack the administration with comments along the lines of
"ok so there's absolutely no proof or even evidence that Bush condoned these acts, but we all know..."

THAT is taking a detour into KoolAid land, coming dangerously close to the unguarded border with The Grand Illuminated Empire of Conspiracy Theoria.

And besides, IIRC those events involved no actual interrogation, they were just soldiers making fun of the enemy.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

And besides, IIRC those events involved no actual interrogation, they were just soldiers making fun of the enemy.

Or making a test-run. I have been baking survival bars for my mylars, trying to figure out how to get back on the Murray v. Rossi thread topic.

 

[amlevin]

Or making a test-run. I have been baking survival bars for my mylars, trying to figure out how to get back on the Murray v. Rossi thread topic.

Why bother, both topics are both settled issues. Abu Graib and Murry-Rossi are done deals. How about something new for a change.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

Why bother, both topics are both settled issues. Abu Graib and Murry-Rossi are done deals. How about something new for a change.

You are right, they are done deals.

It's snowing outside!

 

[tombrewster421]

No, what I'm saying is that when something is a blasted all over the media as the Abu incidents, including the investigations, hand wringing, and final punishment of those involved, where even the biased media is acknowledging they were isolated incidents perpetrated by individuals and not sanctioned or condoned at any level of the chain of command, and you still attack the administration with comments along the lines of
"ok so there's absolutely no proof or even evidence that Bush condoned these acts, but we all know..."

THAT is taking a detour into KoolAid land, coming dangerously close to the unguarded border with The Grand Illuminated Empire of Conspiracy Theoria.

And besides, IIRC those events involved no actual interrogation, they were just soldiers making fun of the enemy.

Just because some soldiers were punished for their actions doesn't mean they were not ordered to do those actions. Do you think that all orders come in writing? The fact is the soldiers were trained how to get information and more than likely were coached on what "techniques" to use. Word got out what was going on and someone had to take the fall. Do you think the man in charge would accept responsibility? Doubtful. If you don't think Bush ordered torture then why did he say he'd do it again?
http://www.google.com/search?q=I+or...t+again&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

 

[Bob Warden]

Just because some soldiers were punished for their actions doesn't mean they were not ordered to do those actions. Do you think that all orders come in writing? The fact is the soldiers were trained how to get information and more than likely were coached on what "techniques" to use. Word got out what was going on and someone had to take the fall. Do you think the man in charge would accept responsibility? Doubtful. If you don't think Bush ordered torture then why did he say he'd do it again?
http://www.google.com/search?q=I+or...t+again&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Bush admitted in his book to PERSONALLY okaying waterboarding, a tactic everyone in the world except the Bush Jr. administration has always considered to be torture. So there is no longer any question that Jr. personally ordered torture.

 

[gogodawgs]

Bush admitted in his book to PERSONALLY okaying waterboarding, a tactic everyone in the world except the Bush Jr. administration has always considered to be torture. So there is no longer any question that Jr. personally ordered torture.

What I highlighted in bold is patently false.

 

[Squeak]

Waterboarding is not tortue. And if it is, so what?:banghead:

 

[tombrewster421]

Waterboarding is not tortue. And if it is, so what?:banghead:

Has anyone here ever had waterboarding done to them? If you did, would you feel like it was torture? If it feels like it, then it probably is.