My encounter at 16

[Gunslinger]

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http://www.state.wv.us/WVSCA/jury/crim/trespass.htm

I think the thread has about run its course, but if you want more...

 

[deepdiver]

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I think a lot of this has to do with where you are and the social norms. I spent a lot of my summers growing up in rural KY. My grandparents' generation and older always had a gun at hand by the front door back then. I've had guns pointed at me when going to visit someone unannounced but it was nothing I ever felt threatened by or got bunged up about. I've been armed myself when that happened. It was protective but not mean spirited and to me it was a non event (although the one time I was shot at was a minor event). I haven't seen anyone do that in probably 20 years or more now as most of the generation who grew up that way have passed on or are too feeble to answer the door themselves anymore.

At night, in certain rural areas, if you approached someone's door who didn't know you or didn't recognize you right off, it just was not all that uncommon that you had a gun pointed at you although you may often not even know it had happened. No one talked of brandishing or even really had a discussion about it. It was just how things were.

IMO, the real faux pas by the man was drawing attention to the fact that he had a gun. Now that, I never saw someone do. Once the home owner realized you were not a threat, the gun just got holstered or put up without a word about it. It was no more of an event than turning on the porch light or asking, "who's there?"

 

[unreconstructed1]

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deepdiver wrote:

IMO, the real faux pas by the man was drawing attention to the fact that he had a gun. Now that, I never saw someone do. Once the home owner realized you were not a threat, the gun just got holstered or put up without a word about it. It was no more of an event than turning on the porch light or asking, "who's there?"

that's what makes me question the mans motives in this one. as I said, I never answer teh door past a certain time without my pistol, but I have also never purposefully aimed my pistol at the person without knowing his intentions ( remember rule #1: do not allow your muzzle to cover anything that you are not absolutely willing to destroy), and I would certainly never say "Hey boy, don't you see that I've got a gun drawn" ( which leaves me thinking that the guy did it out of some sort of "badass" factor more than anything, especially once you add in the wifes behavior, which would indicate that the gentleman does this on a regular basis)

 

[ralphb72]

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[MetalChris]

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Gunslinger wrote:

http://www.state.wv.us/WVSCA/jury/crim/trespass.htm

I think the thread has about run its course, but if you want more...

Since my other post got deleted, I'll tone it down a bit.

If you think that someone knocking on your door asking for help after being involved in an accident (which you can see just 60 yards away from your front door) is a threat, you do not pass the "reasonable person" portion of any self-defense law I'm aware of. Sure, there are criminals who prey on people who open doors no questions asked, but the VAST majority of the time someone knocks on your door they do not have criminal motives or intentions.

 

[deepdiver]

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MetalChris wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:

http://www.state.wv.us/WVSCA/jury/crim/trespass.htm

I think the thread has about run its course, but if you want more...

Since my other post got deleted, I'll tone it down a bit.

If you think that someone knocking on your door asking for help after being involved in an accident (which you can see just 60 yards away from your front door) is a threat, you do not pass the "reasonable person" portion of any self-defense law I'm aware of. Sure, there are criminals who prey on people who open doors no questions asked, but the VAST majority of the time someone knocks on your door they do not have criminal motives or intentions.

Let's not make too many assumptions here about what the homeowner saw. I have two friends who have congenital partial blindness to the point that they are both legally blind. While they can identify someone 10 feet away on their front porch, watch tv, read a book or use a computer, they wouldn't know from 60 yards away if they were looking at a car accident or a beached whale, especially at night.

 

[Citizen]

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MetalChris wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:

http://www.state.wv.us/WVSCA/jury/crim/trespass.htm

I think the thread has about run its course, but if you want more...

Since my other post got deleted, I'll tone it down a bit.

If you think that someone knocking on your door asking for help after being involved in an accident (which you can see just 60 yards away from your front door) is a threat, you do not pass the "reasonable person" portion of any self-defense law I'm aware of. Sure, there are criminals who prey on people who open doors no questions asked, but the VAST majority of the time someone knocks on your door they do not have criminal motives or intentions.

Earlier in this thread I used a rather strict interpretation. I've since modified my view. I PM'd a source I considered worth listening to and received a broader understanding.

Understand that there is more to the law than just the understanding we pull from intense study of good defense experts.

Very few of us have actually read the law ourselves on the thread topic because the common law is contained in years and years, perhaps centuries,of court cases. Thus, we're getting our info second and third hand, or farther removed,by relying on anything other than the actual court cases.

So, whether the old man was justified is going to be looked at through the prism of the common law as modified by the judgement of the judge and jury.

While you and I might have a strict interpretation based on our understandingfrom our frequent exposure to tactics discussions, defense expert legal information, and statutory law, we might find a jury of our peers, magistrates, and judges disagreeing with us.

 

[xRapidDavex]

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Dustin wrote:

unreconstructed1 wrote:

No one has teh right to draw down on another person simply because they are there. If someone knocks onyour door selling magazine Subscriptions, you don't have a right to point a gun at them with your finger on the trigger demanding them to throw their hands up.

If a Jehovahs witness comes to your door, you gonna pull a shotgun?

If you are that damn scared, maybe you shouldn't be answering your door.

and by the way, I have a GED, what's wrong with that?

Errch !!!

Now just where do you get off saying what IDo, andDo Not, have the right to do on my own damn property ?!?!? (See how it works?)

Seriously though, your being way to nieve.

Two kids, Friday night, knocking on an old man's door, who lives in the country.

What if this old man, Last friday got harrased by teens ? He 'd be ready for them this time.

Now hey pointing a gun at someone without the intent to pull the trigger is never cool in my book.

But I want tell ANYONE in the US

what they can and cannot do on THEIR OWN PROPERTY !

Its not like they were IN THE HOUSE when the gun was pointed at them. How would you feel if you were just in an accident, then had a gun drawn on you when you wanted help and you were only on the front porch?

 

[deepdiver]

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xRapidDavex wrote:

Dustin wrote:

unreconstructed1 wrote:

No one has teh right to draw down on another person simply because they are there. If someone knocks onyour door selling magazine Subscriptions, you don't have a right to point a gun at them with your finger on the trigger demanding them to throw their hands up.

If a Jehovahs witness comes to your door, you gonna pull a shotgun?

If you are that damn scared, maybe you shouldn't be answering your door.

and by the way, I have a GED, what's wrong with that?

Errch !!!

Now just where do you get off saying what IDo, andDo Not, have the right to do on my own damn property ?!?!? (See how it works?)

Seriously though, your being way to nieve.

Two kids, Friday night, knocking on an old man's door, who lives in the country.

What if this old man, Last friday got harrased by teens ? He 'd be ready for them this time.

Now hey pointing a gun at someone without the intent to pull the trigger is never cool in my book.

But I want tell ANYONE in the US

what they can and cannot do on THEIR OWN PROPERTY !

Its not like they were IN THE HOUSE when the gun was pointed at them. How would you feel if you were just in an accident, then had a gun drawn on you when you wanted help and you were only on the front porch?

At night, walking up to a house in out in the county I wouldn't be surprised to have a gun pointed at me. I certainly wouldn't prefer it, however, I wouldn't get all bunged up about it as long as the person wasn't waving it around and making threats and put it away once s/he realized I was not a threat.

 

[xRapidDavex]

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Sounds like that wouldn't have happened if the guy wasn't married.