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New Open Carrier!
- Thread starter Lafayette
- Start date
Would strongly discourage carrying a long gun at one of our OC dinners. Not in and of itself illegal, but like the consumption of alcohol while carrrying, that creates an image not favorable to us.
Almost all of the participants/attendees at our breakfasts or dinners are VCDL members, but these events are planned separate from that organization.
It also presents a problem with what to do with it after you sit down and handling it could be construed as brandishing. As Grapeshot said, it's discouraged.
peter -
We've always said "OC, CC, or No-C." There's a difference between discouraging something and not encouraging it.
There is also the feelings of the hosts to be taken into account.
And the law:uhoh: - OCing a long gun just might be seen as being ostentatious.
stay safe.
Being unafraid where angels fear to tread, I will say it is more than discouraged, a violation even. We could bring it up before the Joint Rules Committee if required.peter -
We've always said "OC, CC, or No-C." There's a difference between discouraging something and not encouraging it.
There is also the feelings of the hosts to be taken into account.
And the law:uhoh: - OCing a long gun just might be seen as being ostentatious.
stay safe.
Some might say that carrying a big gun was being austin-taterous....not me. :lol:
Show up with a long gun and I'm going to ask you to sling it over your back, muzzle down, and sit with it there all night. And since the trigger will be behind you, I'll ask that you unload. For safety and muzzle control.
That's, of course, presuming our host does not voice an objection.
The "Joint Rules Committee" can quit the sanctimonious posturing. We OC at these dinners to educate, as well as to get together socially and to either make fun of or admire what everybody else is carrying. I say we edumacate anybody showing up with a long gun about the disadvantages of doing so. Sit them next to me so I can [strike]interrogate[/strike] converse about the combat patrol they will be going on after dinner.
I have my reasons for thinking that the tentative newest dinner companion was asking about what he might see, rather than trying to find out how he would be received were he to show up with a long gun. He's new here. OCing long guns has been in the news a lot - even here in the Richmond area. It makes sense to inquire about what he might encounter. OTOH, if our intertlocator was/is planning to show up with a long gun I'd rather we wait till then to apply gentle social pressure rather than suddenly have a "OC Dinner Rule" if for no other than if we start with one I'm convinced we will end up with many. Break the law and you expose all of us to the consequences, which among other reasons is, I think, why we ask folks not to break laws. Do something "the rest of us" think is foolish or makes you look like a ninny and you can either change your behavior, suffer through while everybody treats you like you are foolish or a ninny, or slink away to never come back.
But a rule? Next thing you know there will be dues and a membership card (and maybe even a secret handshake). Once we get to that point we will have to elect officers and then questions will be raised about why annual meetings are not being held annually.
It's already bad enough that the "Executive Committee" gets badmouthed about how, when, and where it is decided on where to get together and eat.
stay safe.
That's, of course, presuming our host does not voice an objection.
The "Joint Rules Committee" can quit the sanctimonious posturing. We OC at these dinners to educate, as well as to get together socially and to either make fun of or admire what everybody else is carrying. I say we edumacate anybody showing up with a long gun about the disadvantages of doing so. Sit them next to me so I can [strike]interrogate[/strike] converse about the combat patrol they will be going on after dinner.
I have my reasons for thinking that the tentative newest dinner companion was asking about what he might see, rather than trying to find out how he would be received were he to show up with a long gun. He's new here. OCing long guns has been in the news a lot - even here in the Richmond area. It makes sense to inquire about what he might encounter. OTOH, if our intertlocator was/is planning to show up with a long gun I'd rather we wait till then to apply gentle social pressure rather than suddenly have a "OC Dinner Rule" if for no other than if we start with one I'm convinced we will end up with many. Break the law and you expose all of us to the consequences, which among other reasons is, I think, why we ask folks not to break laws. Do something "the rest of us" think is foolish or makes you look like a ninny and you can either change your behavior, suffer through while everybody treats you like you are foolish or a ninny, or slink away to never come back.
But a rule? Next thing you know there will be dues and a membership card (and maybe even a secret handshake). Once we get to that point we will have to elect officers and then questions will be raised about why annual meetings are not being held annually.
It's already bad enough that the "Executive Committee" gets badmouthed about how, when, and where it is decided on where to get together and eat.
stay safe.
I would understand the urge to OC long guns in a state that unconstitutionally restricts American 2A rights to OC handguns - to make a point. To OC a long gun in a state where handgun OC is legal - what it the point? I think this would not improve public perception of OC and would instead further the idea that OCers are 'gun nuts'
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I agree 100%.
But I will defend to the death your right to look like a loon. While making sure that everybody understands that the rest of us "gun nuts" do not agree with or support your behavior.
stay safe.
Firearms Iinstuctor
Regular Member
Constitutionally there is no different between long guns and hand guns.
Lafayette
Regular Member
I was just curious about long guns, I had no intention of bringing one but just wanted to know how it worked and what to expect.
I am a little surprised about the response here to the question though.
I am a little surprised about the response here to the question though.
I offered a succinct reply to the question on its face value, with a direct answer based upon what I conclude would be the response from the restaurant, other diners, the attendees from here and the rest of Virginia who could well read about it in the morning papers.....resulting in a public relations fiasco.
I understand Skid's argument and agree with it for the most part generally, BUT not as it applies specifically to our dinners.
Skid, who is extremely well intentioned and I consider him a learned friend, counters with 'sanctimonious' descriptor (pot calling the kettle black?) and how we do not need rules, but only gentle pressure. Putting the cards on the table, we do have rules. They may be unwritten, but they are as real as if they were black letter law or at the least case law. Don't continually curse/swear in a loud voice, don't stand up to lecture the group on the need to overthrow our government by force of arms, don't break the table china intentionally, don't show up for our dinner smelling like you have just cleaned your septic tank, etc, etc.
Don't want to title these as rules? Then perhaps I might suggest that such a response/reaction really ought to be the expected/anticipated reaction. If one is to be responsible and considerate of others in the group, they cannot force acceptance of their conduct on the rest of us. See? It is not the gun, but the conduct/action of the individual.
Our dinners are put together by an ad hoc committee who could easily enough vote to set some standards were that ever felt necessary. We "build it" so that others may attend. If we withdraw, then someone else can step forward....they could do that now actually with a separate event.
How would I react? By using all in my persuasive powers to correct the situation, including talking to the restaurant management. If not successful, I would leave the premises and not be part or party to such.
Yes I recognize that the originator of the question was likely asking what to expect of others, not what he could do. Plus I expected that my reference to the "Joint Rules Committee" would be viewed as somewhat tongue-in-check by those who should know. The JRC rule was never formally/properly approved, yet is enforced.
I've said enough on this, maybe a tiny bit too much....but I did get an invitation
I understand Skid's argument and agree with it for the most part generally, BUT not as it applies specifically to our dinners.
Skid, who is extremely well intentioned and I consider him a learned friend, counters with 'sanctimonious' descriptor (pot calling the kettle black?) and how we do not need rules, but only gentle pressure. Putting the cards on the table, we do have rules. They may be unwritten, but they are as real as if they were black letter law or at the least case law. Don't continually curse/swear in a loud voice, don't stand up to lecture the group on the need to overthrow our government by force of arms, don't break the table china intentionally, don't show up for our dinner smelling like you have just cleaned your septic tank, etc, etc.
Don't want to title these as rules? Then perhaps I might suggest that such a response/reaction really ought to be the expected/anticipated reaction. If one is to be responsible and considerate of others in the group, they cannot force acceptance of their conduct on the rest of us. See? It is not the gun, but the conduct/action of the individual.
Our dinners are put together by an ad hoc committee who could easily enough vote to set some standards were that ever felt necessary. We "build it" so that others may attend. If we withdraw, then someone else can step forward....they could do that now actually with a separate event.
How would I react? By using all in my persuasive powers to correct the situation, including talking to the restaurant management. If not successful, I would leave the premises and not be part or party to such.
Yes I recognize that the originator of the question was likely asking what to expect of others, not what he could do. Plus I expected that my reference to the "Joint Rules Committee" would be viewed as somewhat tongue-in-check by those who should know. The JRC rule was never formally/properly approved, yet is enforced.
I've said enough on this, maybe a tiny bit too much....but I did get an invitation
We sometimes flog the horse, exchange ideas/thoughts to the n[SUP]th[/SUP] degree, in order to better understand each other. We are all friends here (we really are) and go home at night knowing that the sun will rise tomorrow.
I guess I'd better step in here. First, Skidmark is right. It is not discouraged, it's just not encouraged. Second, I spend a good bit of my life with long guns so I have no basic long gun hatred. Third, what to expect is probably no one would say a thing.
My post was more to let you know what to expect. We had a member here a while back who was charged and convicted of brandishing for simply putting his gun in a holster and placing it in a compartment...WHILE SITTING IN HIS CAR. A school bus driver witnessed it from his bus and decided it had to be wrong, complained to the police who ran the tags and arrested him at home.
At one time I wore large caliber guns. 1911's are pocket pistols to me. I realized that they did get unwanted attention at these events and stopped.
Now as to long guns at dinner. What are you going to do with it when you sit down? Will you have to handle it? A good example of the idiotic long gun phobia is with National Parks where they have to follow the laws of the state they're in. I got a copy of an internal memo the head law enforcement Ranger sent that said OC/CC were fine and rifles when slung were OK but not in the person's hand(s) because that would constitute Brandishing in Virginia.
Those are the big pitfalls I see with long gun carry at dinner, but it's only my opinion and not a rule. As I said earlier, I doubt any of the members would say a thing and if management did, we would probably all stand up and leave never to return.
My post was more to let you know what to expect. We had a member here a while back who was charged and convicted of brandishing for simply putting his gun in a holster and placing it in a compartment...WHILE SITTING IN HIS CAR. A school bus driver witnessed it from his bus and decided it had to be wrong, complained to the police who ran the tags and arrested him at home.
At one time I wore large caliber guns. 1911's are pocket pistols to me. I realized that they did get unwanted attention at these events and stopped.
Now as to long guns at dinner. What are you going to do with it when you sit down? Will you have to handle it? A good example of the idiotic long gun phobia is with National Parks where they have to follow the laws of the state they're in. I got a copy of an internal memo the head law enforcement Ranger sent that said OC/CC were fine and rifles when slung were OK but not in the person's hand(s) because that would constitute Brandishing in Virginia.
Those are the big pitfalls I see with long gun carry at dinner, but it's only my opinion and not a rule. As I said earlier, I doubt any of the members would say a thing and if management did, we would probably all stand up and leave never to return.
A good guy (with a long gun) is no different than an anti, mole, or Trojan Horse (with a long gun) precipitating the problem and getting the same result.
We have seen Starbucks, Target, and a few others try to straddle the line of not banning and wanting all equally. See no reason to blackball a restaurant who hasn't been afforded the opportunity to be fully educated - that is more than a one conversation deal - although I too would likely walk.
Given time and sufficient effort, we have seen positive responses from a number of businesses, some complete reversals: Jimmy Johns in Richmond and most notably Darden Industry restaurants (Olive Garden, Longhorn, Bahama Breeze, Seasons 52, The Capital Grill, Eddie V's, Yard House and Red Lobster [sold now])
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/red-lobster-chain-sold-2-1-billion-article-1.1794701
My previous response today was to put a match to the gasoline that was rolling all around this thread - too much tippy-toeing.....:monkey:monkey
The one Richmond Saturday OC breakfast I attended while in VA was quite enjoyable, though it seemed to be too early in the morning for adult beverages, and believe you me, the assembled crew did not look like those that drank Mimosas...:lol:
Wasn't it Groucho Marx said that 'he'd never want to be a member of club that would offer him membership'....Thank goodness OCDO's dues are affordable....:banana::banana:
The one Richmond Saturday OC breakfast I attended while in VA was quite enjoyable, though it seemed to be too early in the morning for adult beverages, and believe you me, the assembled crew did not look like those that drank Mimosas...:lol:
No tip toeing here - we are equal opportunity horse floggers.
Now and then we might take a less travel route.....just for the scenery.
Candidate (has my vote) for worst recording ever: Tip Toeing........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcSlcNfThUA
va_tazdad
Regular Member
I doubt the OPC/CRT (Olde Phart's Club/Cardiac Recovery Team) or associate members can spell OR correctly pronounce Mimosas. We are however entertaining.
;>)
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I tink I maiz have gots dat in an IVs bag last time wuz at MCV/VCU - least days calls its my vitomines.
Was not OCing there though