Obama's 23 EO's

[Grapeshot]

On the issue of nosy nurses. Let me tell y'all how I got out of university with decent grades (honors) I got my degree in history with a minor in religion. My professors were as liberal as the day is long. They were political many of them. So how does a conservative girl Get through that and live tell the tale. Parrot talk. You tell them what they want to hear and what will get them out of your business and down to business as fast as possible. This has applications in real life too, you do not take an oath to tell the truth to your MD. Tell them whatever will get them past the forms and on to your personal sitaution.

Ahuh lady.

That is a mark of intelligence - telling people what they think they hear.

 

[All American Nightmare]

Too early to tell where this could lead????????????:uhoh:

 

[Citizen]

That would be too narrow a viewpoint ...

He was comparing to whether it protected against disclosures to nurses and doctors.

In a broader context, yes, its a bit narrow.


The right against self-incrimination is really the right not to be compelled to give information against yourself. Its deepest root is in torture of the conscience: self-preservation being the strongest impulse known in nature, being compelled to harm yourself is properly considered mental torture.

The right against self-incrimination developed over centuries in England. A lot of people paid a heavy price to obtain the right against self-incrimination. It is a very interesting history. Learning that history instills a deep appreciation for its protections.

I always recommend The Origins of the Fifth Amendment: The Right Against Self-Incrimination by Leonard Levy. This book won a Pulitzer Prize in history about 1970. Still available in paperback. Very good book.

If you cannot afford to buy it; I urge you to read all you can on-line about the history of it. Research some of its characters, too, for example, John Lilburne, a real nasty named William Laud, another nasty named Whitgrift, Oliver Cromwell, Chief Justice Edward Coke.

 

[Dreamer]

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

Number 5 should scare the crap out of EVERY person who is interested in OC.

If this one gets implemented, this means that if you get stopped for a MWAG investigation, they can seize and keep your gun for as long as they want while they perform "full background checks".

Combined with some of the mental health recommendations, it means that if they find in your medical records that you have EVER in your life sought the services of a psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist, they could just keep your gun. If you have EVER been prescribed medicine for anxiety, grief, depression or any other mental situation, they could keep your gun.

If #5 is implements on a national level, it woul dhave a TREMENDOUS "chilling effect" on OC, and would, in practice, pretty much eliminate it out of the fear of OCers that they would lose their valuable property for some nonsensical reason.

OCers should consider #5 to be an official declaration of war on OC, because that is precisely what it is...

 

[va_tazdad]

Don't count on Kaine

Mark Warner has been fairly good in the past, however he seems to be wavering a bit this time. Kane, well... he's a freshman and blocked the restaurant carry bill in VA while he was Governer, I'd say he's a mixed bag who will probably go for the bills.

Tim Kaine as governor never saw an anti-gun/gun control bill he didn't like.

Kaine has no respect for the 2nd.

 

[va_tazdad]

I have worked for the state > 17 years. Maybe I forgot the event, but I doubt it---I never remember taking any oath to support anything when hired. Now, I DID do so when entering the Army, and I do definitely remember that, and try to honor that oath every day. I'm just saying if you hope to expect people in the state service to honor such an oath, I think it does not exist. If the fate of the USA, or Virginia hinges on that promise, well, . . . . .don't hold your breath!

I have worked for the state for 18 years, and I did take an oath, but that was when I had police powers.

Whereas they were "taken away" from my job, I guess I am not held to that oath any more.

 

[USNA69]

Perhaps it is time to lighten the mood briefly.

The federal demonization of guns and gun owners smacks of the Spanish Inquisition.
... and I certainly did not expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI

 

[OC for ME]

Perhaps it is time to lighten the mood briefly.

The federal demonization of guns and gun owners smacks of the Spanish Inquisition.
... and I certainly did not expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0Y39eMvpI

My personal favorite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqgZnvfJ9Jg

 

[aviaator]

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.


So.....Zero and Holder will be the first to turn themselves in? (Fast and Furious)

 

[2a4all]

There was a lot in these and his speech that was written in between the lines.

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health

Rules 4 & 5 are the real danger here.

If, for any reason, your gun is seized, you may be subject to a full B/G check prior to its return. The rule doesn't say what that means. The current B/G system isn't very thorough, as it only checks lists to see if you're on one or more of them. You're not asked to fill out a questionnaire of employment, medical, residence, financial, etc histories nor are you asked for personal references. Simply opening an investigation would suffice to talk to your neighbors, and examine your bank records, which could reveal your employer (direct deposit, anyone?) as well as medical providers (damn co-pays). Lots of debits to RiteAid? Any on-line ammo purchases? Those sellers would give you up in a heartbeat to protect their business licenses. I don't imagine that it would be difficult to obtain a FISA warrant to examine these files, especially if you declined to participate in order to "clear things up" and get your gun back.

 

[vt800c]

the future is now

History is rife with the examples of despots who first disarmed their populations and then executed millions of dissidents. I am all but certain that the people of Russia, China, Germany, et.al., never believed for a moment that it could happen in their country … but it did.

I only hope the conservatives are in charge and the progressive liberal moonbats are the ones rounded up second. I always reserved first place for the lawyers.

 

[vt800c]

Psych Notes

One of the questions was did I wear seat belts. I somehow missed checking the box. When the Doc came in, he started entering the info in the 'puter and verbally asked me I wore my seat belt. I stated "That question has nothing to do with medical care and is none of your business, nor the Federal governments". He probably made a psych note. ****.

I think I'll answer "only on Tuesdays after 6 PM and on holidays. Statistically, thats when most accidents occur"

 

[roscoe13]

Rules 4 & 5 are the real danger here..

Was it really necessary to quote all 23 of them if you were only going to discuss 2???

Roscoe

 

[Citizen]

Was it really necessary to quote all 23 of them if you were only going to discuss 2???

Roscoe

+1!!!

Its really annoying when a long quote is copied entirely. Same for multiple pictures or single large pictures.

 

[1911 Enthusiast]

Its really annoying when a long quote is copied entirely. ...

Usually a case of laziness or simply being forum editing challenged.

Neither applies to 2a4all so he apparently had another reason.

 

[2a4all]

Was it really necessary to quote all 23 of them if you were only going to discuss 2???

Roscoe

I'm sometimes annoyed by this too, but in this instance, I thought others might wish to have The Twenty Three available in their entirety, as they are new.

Usually a case of laziness or simply being forum editing challenged.

Neither applies to 2a4all so he apparently had another reason.

It occurred to me that there are a few parallels to be drawn here. The bulk of The Twenty Three (The Twenty Three Psalms?*) infringe on the Second, but the most egregious are 4 & 5, which abridge the Fourth & Fifth.

And on the 21st, he'll swear "...to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.".

* Unlike Moses coming down from the mountain with The Ten, he is walking into a valley of trouble, and while he has a staff, I don't think they'll provide much comfort. Of course, some of The Staff are armed with full-auto rods, there will be protection.

 

[roscoe13]

I'm sometimes annoyed by this too, but in this instance, I thought others might wish to have The Twenty Three available in their entirety, as they are new.

If they were "new", how on earth did you quote them?:banghead:

Roscoe

 

[G22shooter]

If they were "new", how on earth did you quote them?:banghead:

Roscoe

How is being vindictive contributing to the overall discussion?

Fat-fingered from my Samsung Galaxy TAB2...

 

[TFred]

How is being vindictive contributing to the overall discussion?

Exactly! This is now the seventh post about the non-issue...

Take a deep breath. Scroll down, and keep reading!



TFred

 

[Old Virginia Joe]

who, me??

If this one gets implemented, this means that if you get stopped for a MWAG investigation, they can seize and keep your gun for as long as they want while they perform "full background checks". Combined with some of the mental health recommendations, it means that if they find in your medical records that you have EVER in your life sought the services of a psychiatrist, psychologist, or therapist, they could just keep your gun.

Would this include marriage "counselling?" Don't remember the specific title of that long-ago advisor, but I know it was "Doctor" so-and-so . . . . . .think it was a "therapist." I KNEW my ex was going to hurt me from the past!!