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OCer robbed at gunpoint, of his gun

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
I assume that most people in prison will be non-white, because that is what history has shown me to be true. I beleive it will be true tomorrow. That is an assumption, based on evidence, and it is no more racist than the previous assumptions. It is an educated and reasonable supposition.

It is not a certainty. When it is foolish to consider the alternative, it is reasonable to presume.

It is not racist to presume that a violent criminal is black in a vacuum of facts. The only fact we have is that, statistically, it's most likely a black guy. That statistic is a fact, and it's the only one we've got. It would be stupid to presume that the crime was commited by an alien from another planet. Statistics are all we have to go on here, and those numbers cannot be lied about. Math is not racist. Nor is basing one's decisions, beliefs, etc., upon it.

Science is not racism.

One shouldn't assume. A quick check shows that most people in prison are white. Which makes sense as the majority of people in the US are white. about 13% black and 13% Hispanic, a few Asians, etc.
http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/367_jail_inmates_by_race_sex_and.html
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
One shouldn't assume. A quick check shows that most people in prison are white. Which makes sense as the majority of people in the US are white. about 13% black and 13% Hispanic, a few Asians, etc.
http://www.allcountries.org/uscensus/367_jail_inmates_by_race_sex_and.html

Assumption is the mechanism of racism. Even though the numbers actually slightly favor the assumption the poster you replied to makes about prison population, they don't justify the assumption that an individual attacker would be a minority.

I'll say it again, assuming the a particular perp is a minority is a racist assumption.

I hope that OCDO, a Liberty-loving site, is above that.
 

Deacon Blues

Newbie
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
124
Location
Birmingham, AL
I'm not sure why racism continues to infect these discussions, but it sure does a good job of killing or permanently derailing threads.

Besides, there isn't much more than can be said about this incident without the full account; the only two people who can give that are a criminal and a man who doesn't want to have to defend his actions to the whole world.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
Assumption is the mechanism of racism. Even though the numbers actually slightly favor the assumption the poster you replied to makes about prison population, they don't justify the assumption that an individual attacker would be a minority.

I'll say it again, assuming the a particular perp is a minority is a racist assumption.

I hope that OCDO, a Liberty-loving site, is above that.

especially since assuming anything or making a judgment about the incident does not help anyone fight for their constitutionally protected rights one bit. Especially the right to bear arms (as opposed to the right to keep arms).
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
especially since assuming anything or making a judgment about the incident does not help anyone fight for their constitutionally protected rights one bit. Especially the right to bear arms (as opposed to the right to keep arms).

True that.
 

Haman J.T.

New member
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
1,245
Location
, ,
What I think is wrong is that some people point to this and say:"See! That guy was robbed BECAUSE he was carrying a gun!"

There simply is no evidence of that. On the sidebar on the webpage with the news video are no less than 8 other armed robbery reports. I don't see anything different in this armed robbery than any of the others.
Exactly! No one with common sense,would think that this single event would bolster the anti's twisted reasoning. How many of the OCers in this country have suffered this fate?One out of 100's of thousands? I would be willing to state that more meteors have fallen out of the sky near someone in this country than incidents like this!
 

Leader

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Messages
274
Location
Livingston Co., Michigan, , USA
Exactly! No one with common sense,would think that this single event would bolster the anti's twisted reasoning. How many of the OCers in this country have suffered this fate?One out of 100's of thousands? I would be willing to state that more meteors have fallen out of the sky near someone in this country than incidents like this!

Well we certainly have more documented cases of people that have been hit by lightning TWICE then OC'ers being robbed while carrying.
 

EXTREMEOPS1

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
248
Location
Escondido CA
Three well placed rounds....

~ I am a big Open Carry advocate, and do so as much as possible. I believe whole heartedly in the right to keep and bear arms, and in normalizing it. I do however realize and respect, that as it becomes more common place, and becomes more accepted and normal, you will have encounters that normal people have. People crash cars, and people will drop guns, and they may discharge. People lose expensive jewelry, and people will sometimes forget their guns in bathrooms or dressing rooms. People get robbed for wallets, jewelry (if they didn’t forget it at Macy’s), and thus, will at a point, get robbed for that nice looking firearm that the BG wants bad enough to risk his life for. These occurrences will be rare and uncommon, but they will happen. I don’t particularly doubt the story. I do think it is too bad, and I am glad the guy is ok. I happen to carry a Back up directly addressing my concern of firearm theft. I also would say, with conviction, ya better kill me before you try to take my gun at gunpoint... I will draw... I will fire.... I would expect to catch a round in the exchange.....I myself am no stranger to pain. This is the code that I as a pistolero must accept if I am to keep safe my arms without fail, or accept that my arm, once relinquished, may cause hardship and loss of life for my frailty or inability to retain it. I take the stance seriously, and accept the conviction as my personal code. My final thoughts, if someone is pointing a gun at me, then they very likely will shoot me, even if I give them what they want… – Alas, to each their own, and I understand many will carry a firearm, yet will relinquish it in the face of extreme adversity in hopes they will not suffer pain or death.
– Normal people make individual choices right? --- Yes they do …. That’s normal.
Bat.

..would have had the OCer still in possession of his weapon.situation awareness would have been imperative...be alert and aware of your surroundings at all times and maybe just maybe you will live to tell the tale another day
 

Batousaii

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
Ops, I mostly agree...

... That situational awareness would have potentially changed the outcome, and that with that he may have quelled the enemy. However, we (i presume your name is in regards to military service) both know that we train and train and train on how to react to contact, and still, we can be caught in an ambush. All plans are good until the first shots fired, and in this case we can only presume to know half the facts, can only make a summary tactical analysis, and in the end, we do not know how the bad guy approached exactly, or the fine details of the events that lead up to it, or his personal bravery index, or his ability to employ situational awareness. All said and done, there are many many factors that we are not privy to... and as individuals, we do the best with what we got, and with who we are.
 

Nutczak

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
2,165
Location
The Northwoods, lakeland area, Wisconsin, USA
Why is it I don't see a single post from those who wanted to try to single me out on this very subject. Could it be that this is just a slap in the face and it has finally shut those folks up? (I expect a lashing now, so have some fun) I thought your OC proudly displayed was supposed to deter BG's from victimizing you...guess that's really not the case now is it and perhaps this ex-military LEO had this issue directly in his crosshairs all along.

Do you understand that this incident happened in Milwaukee Wisconsin, where there are no legal options to carry concealed?
Our only option is to Open-Carry in Wisconsin.
So we have 3 choices, Either we do not carry, Or we carry illegally by concealing, or we go about with no way to defend our loved ones and ourselves, or we carry openly
I also have heard that there is an ordinance In Milwaukee that makes possession of a knife with a blade longer than 3" prohibited.
So if you had no legal way of carrying concealed, what would you do? Go without?
if I had the option to carry concealed and not need to be concerned about being cited for it, I would. But we just do not have that option yet. Hopefully the current mayor of Milwaukee will fail horrible in his campaign to be come governor and we will have non-Licensed C-C options within a year.
 

Marc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
184
Location
St. Joseph, Missouri, USA
just my 2 cents here, but that is why when i am OCing i also CC my little Derringer. If a BG is able to get my .40 cal from me he will suffer a headshot from my Derringer. always carry a back up.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
A BUG for the BG makes good sense, if one can afford it. If not, someone previously said there are more cases of people being struck by lightening TWICE, than there are cases of an OCer having their gun taken away.

Regardless, when I CC, my radar (situational awareness) is on luke-warm, at best. When I OC, I can't help it, but it ramps up to high.
 

Claytron

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
402
Location
Maine
The whole problem here is that we are speculating because the person who claims to have had his gun taken won't come here and talk to us about what happened.

I hate to say this, but that raises questions.

The person involved knows that this site exists. Many people he knows post on it. He is making a conscious choice not to participate. So, the questions remain unanswered and speculation runs wild.

The only fact that can be verified is that a man reported to the police that he had a gun taken at gunpoint. Personally, I will give no credit to any of the details of this account until and unless I have a chance to discuss it with the person who claims to have been robbed. Only then can I decide how much credibility the man has.

How does talking to someone over the internet prove anything? Right now you want the guy to come here himself. Then you will want proof its him. Then you will question his story and dismiss it as speculation and unchecked fact because it doesnt help your cause.
 

Claytron

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2010
Messages
402
Location
Maine
Well we certainly have more documented cases of people that have been hit by lightning TWICE then OC'ers being robbed while carrying.

How many people in this country OC compared to how many people have been within a thunderstorm?

Thats sort of like comparing how many people have died in space to how many people have been killed by animals.
 
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