OCing at the Capitol Rally today.

[swillden]

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jaredbelch wrote:

swillden wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

You could always toss him the cuffs and have him cuff himself. 

Why would he do it?  Remember that you can't use deadly force, meaning you can't threaten to shoot him.

The comment was made in jest.

I know, but it was one that I thought some people might take seriously, in spite of the smiley.

 

[jaredbelch]

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swillden wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

swillden wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

You could always toss him the cuffs and have him cuff himself.

Why would he do it? Remember that you can't use deadly force, meaning you can't threaten to shoot him.

The comment was made in jest.

I know, but it was one that I thought some people might take seriously, in spite of the smiley.

Good call. :lol:

 

[Utah_Patriot]

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In the event you have to escalate to deadly force on the force continuum you have surpassed the Hands on aspect and moving to deadly force.

On can reasonably argue the BG has already committed a crime. In the event your firearm deescalates the situation assuming the BG has committed a crime to draw your firearm in the first place. So putting Handcuffs on a person should not have any legal implications then pulling a firearm on a person.

So it comes down to personal preference and how comfortable you feel carrying handcuffs. Is it illegal immoral or wrong for anyone to carry Handcuffs.

Perception is also a big role I dress nicely treat people fairly and for the most part very approachable to the public. One could argue minus the handcuffs carrying my firearm make me look like a LEO I tell people all the time I am not and never lead people to believe other wise.

 

[swillden]

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gunsfreak4791 wrote:

So putting Handcuffs on a person should not have any legal implications then pulling a firearm on a person.

Shouldn't. But that doesn't mean you can't get arrested and charged for it. It's important to realize that while you can absolutely use deadly force to stop a threat, you can NOT use deadly force to make an arrest. If the BG believes you are threatening to shoot him if he doesn't submit to the arrest you may be committing aggravated assault, even after you just drew down on him, or even shot him, with perfect justification!

But I don't worry so much about the legal risk, I worry about the physical danger. Getting close to the bad guy while you cuff him. The reason you carry a gun is so that you can apply force from a distance, but now you're going to give up that advantage and get up close and personal?

What do you do with your gun while you approach? And how do you convince the guy to let you cuff him? Legalities aside, in practice you can't hold your gun on him and cuff him at the same time.

I suppose if you want to carry cuffs as a fashion statement, that's your call, but I don't see any practical value to it. Other than making yourself look like a LEO, which is of dubious value.

 

[Kloutier]

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Dang I wish I could have gone. I am new to OC and wish to find others to share the joy in.

 

[Pistol Pete Utah]

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OCed at the Tea Party today at the Capital, I got a few pictures taken ofmeand one guy asked me some questions while Video taping me. I asked him if he was with Obama he said no, so I just calmly told him we need less government in our lives. He thanked me for OCing then asked why do you OC, I said because it is my 2nd Amendment Right etc.

How about that shirt huh?

 

[Marine Master Sergeant]

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What we have here is a "WANNA BE" - PERIOD

 

[Pistol Pete Utah]

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TOP USMC (ret) wrote:

What we have here is a "WANNA BE" - PERIOD

You want to be me? PERIOD!

 

[Marine Master Sergeant]

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Only item missing is a police scanner- but I bet you got one-

Another "WANNA BE". Soooooooo COOL!

 

[Kevin Jensen]

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What is it with meat head Marines that we seem to attract here? :?

 

[Pistol Pete Utah]

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Kevin Jensen wrote:

What is it with meat head Marines that we seem to attract here? :?

That being his first post, him joining after the WVC event, me giving the WVCPD:cuss:

It smells like a COP or Left wing anti-gunner, or some Jarhead that has nothing else to do.

 

[Marine Master Sergeant]

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Pistol Pete Utah wrote:

Kevin Jensen wrote:

What is it with meat head Marines that we seem to attract here? :?

That being his first post, him joining after the WVC event, me giving the WVCPD:cuss:

It smells like a COP or Left wing anti-gunner, or some Jarhead that has nothing else to do.

I cc mostly, carry everywhere I go- still have never had a day where I wasn't able to cc because of my "attire" as so many of you claim--

Have no issue with OC at all-- BUT-- when we tack on handcuff keys and handcuffs??

We end up with a "WANNA BE" --- The gun is for your personal protection - these kind of people would carry police batons also, if they could-- I personally think thatthose of you who have added handcuffs to your accessories are stupid!

I don't think there are LEO's that carry cuffs off duty.Leave the law enforcement to the law enforcement. FREAKS!:what:

 

[Kevin Jensen]

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TOP USMC (ret) wrote:

Leave the law enforcement to the law enforcement.

I can agree with you there.

 

[Utah_Patriot]

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I have no issue letting the police enforce the laws. I am not a Law enforcement officer nor do I want to be a law enforcement officer.

If I choose to carry handcuffs then it is my choice and my right to carry them.

Does that make me a wanna be police officer the fact that I carry them is my own personal choice. Just because I carry latex gloves does that make me a wanna be EMT.

You may not like my choices to carry handcuffs and I don't expect you to agree with me. But please don't judge others based on a item they may carry or not carry.

 

[utbagpiper]

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TOP USMC (ret) wrote:

I don't think there are LEO's that carry cuffs off duty.Leave the law enforcement to the law enforcement. FREAKS!:what:

Top_USMC,

Welcome to OpenCarry.org. As you can see from the prior posts on this topic, there are several of us who also don't see any value to a private citizen carrying handcuffs. That said, I would encourage you to make an attempt to express your views without the personal insults.

I find a great way to avoid resorting to such language and tactics too quickly is to be aware that I am not posting entirely anonymously. To that end, as well as to adhere to some basic level of common etiquette, an introduction of sorts is greatly appreciated.

I'm Charles Hardy. For the last several years I've been the Public Policy Director for Gun Onwers of Utah (GOUtah!), though the vast majority of my posts here are entirely my personal opinion.

If your interest here is to expand a circle of friends with a common interest in shooting, self-defense, or related endeavors, you should be right at home. This is also a great resource for expanding your knowledge of the laws and rules that govern the carrying and use of firearms in Utah (and other States). There are a few trolls about who like to drive every thread into the dirt if at all possible. I'd urge you to do your best to ignore them. Many here have strong opinions on a variety of topics...some of them even related to guns, self-defense, and RKBA.

Would you do us the honor of an introduction (at least by real first name) so we can get to know something more about you than just that you are a retired Marine?

Thanks

Charles

 

[Pistol Pete Utah]

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TOP USMC (ret) wrote:

Pistol Pete Utah wrote:

Kevin Jensen wrote:

What is it with meat head Marines that we seem to attract here? :?

Have no issue with OC at all-- BUT-- when we tack on handcuff keys and handcuffs??

We end up with a "WANNA BE" --- The gun is for your personal protection - these kind of people would carry police batons also, if they could-- I personally think thatthose of you who have added handcuffs to your accessories are stupid!

I don't think there are LEO's that carry cuffs off duty.Leave the law enforcement to the law enforcement. FREAKS!:what:

Can you comprehend what you read? I was not the guy witht he Handcuffs, i started the thread, you dumb:cuss:The guy with the Hand Cuffs did not look anything like a COP! Tall, thin guy, no fat Doughnut belly, jeans, polo, with a soft vest and hiking boots. Get off your high judgemental horse, and know what you are talking about, before you put your combat boot in your mouth!

I would never carry handcuffs, but if a guy wants to then that is his right, I can question it in a poll, but belittle him in public that is nota nice thing to do especially from a "RET Marine" Son, you are out of line on this one.

 

[Utah_Patriot]

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Thanks by the way it was a Black shirt Black Cargo Pants My black boots. Yes I do carry a Mag/Handcuff Carrier.

Yes it was me at the Capital and I was their to help set up the event.

I stand by my choice and I don't have any issues with other peoples opinions. And thank you for your service USMC Retired. I hope the core instilled in you values that will govern your conduct as you represent the USMC on this fourm.

Semper Fi

Thanks
Zach

 

[Pistol Pete Utah]

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USMC my :cuss:This guy is a poser, he is a WVC Cop or some anti-gunner! I am calling him out and want him to post a photo with some USMC stuff with him. Let's get a name, and a city or State!

Either way, RET Marine has lost his way if he really is one, and lost my respect if he is what he says he is!

 

[Viorel]

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Brutal!

First, I'll shoot off-topic & state that I've enjoyed the topics that I've read thus far here. Although I myself prefer to CC, I can not only understand, but also respect people enjoying OC. I don't feel I need to project a "thank you" to all of you who prefer OC considering it is, in my mind, your right as much as breathing the air. It seems rather silly to me to thank you for taking in oxygen...I think you get my point.

...and yes, I too am a former Marine of 8 years (as well as an Army MP).

Any way, back on topic...

I don't think the wearing of handcuffs is anything negative. From a law enforcement side, I would gladly welcome a citizen (or service member obviously) providing aid while apprehending a "BG"...especially someone who knows how to apply restraints. That isn't 'posing' as a peace officer, it's being prepared in case one is in need of assistance. I direct you to the comment about latex gloves noted previously as a classic example, mirroring the same.

Hardly stupid as some have suggested.

A few points about restraints:

1. If you haven't had actual formal training in their application (to include take-down techniques), leave them at home. They can be used as a weapon and do great harm to your person in a struggle--making a bad situation worse if you're displaying a firearm, which 99% of those struggling WILL be at least tempted to retrieve.

2. Once you have someone in restraints, you are legally responsible for their safety/well being. If they have a medical condition and die while your restraints are on them, you just entered a world of hell.

I DO NOT recommend their use unless it's an extremely grave circumstance.

Last note: I'm not really concerned about folks who openly display cuffs on their belt. The ones who worry me are the folks who have General Mills badges either in their wallet (to resemble a retired officer "cuz it looks kewl") or somewhere on their person.

People are dumb, but dumb people with wild imagination are scary.

 

[swillden]

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Viorel wrote:

1. If you haven't had actual formal training in their application (to include take-down techniques), leave them at home. They can be used as a weapon and do great harm to your person in a struggle--making a bad situation worse if you're displaying a firearm, which 99% of those struggling WILL be at least tempted to retrieve.

+1

And if you have had formal training in their application, you'll also have had enough practice at it to make you hesitate before doing it without armed backup.