Lammo
Regular Member
imported post
Trigger Dr wrote:
Trigger Dr wrote:
Amen and +1. Thanks Trigger Dr!
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Off-person carry in vehicle with CPL illegal
- Thread starter deanf
- Start date
imported post
its legal to have the gun anywhere as long as you are in the car and have you CPL on you(or in the car). If you get out of the car it must be hidden out of sight. but obviously you would have put it on your waist before hopping out(with the license in your wallet already). bam.
Any loose object is extremely dangerous in a car, I never thought of a gun flying at my head, I've definitely rolled a car, I never imagined a loose gun. When I rolled my car my glove box opened and everything was everywhere, just something to consider. That center console? same thing. That heavy ass 1911 wedged between your seat and console, loaded missile. If I ever carry in my car (not on me which has only been a few times) again I will use a holstered setup with retention like kydex or just a strap attached to the car someway permanently. I have placed an LCP in a pocket holster in my center console in a clasped pocket (oh it was just the perfect size for it too), but never again. Thanks for mentioning the flying gun I can't believe I've never thought of it. Just the other day I was talking to someone about car crashes too and how bad loose stuff is.
Off Topic: best way to carry IWB in car concealed (Right handed)?
its legal to have the gun anywhere as long as you are in the car and have you CPL on you(or in the car). If you get out of the car it must be hidden out of sight. but obviously you would have put it on your waist before hopping out(with the license in your wallet already). bam.
Any loose object is extremely dangerous in a car, I never thought of a gun flying at my head, I've definitely rolled a car, I never imagined a loose gun. When I rolled my car my glove box opened and everything was everywhere, just something to consider. That center console? same thing. That heavy ass 1911 wedged between your seat and console, loaded missile. If I ever carry in my car (not on me which has only been a few times) again I will use a holstered setup with retention like kydex or just a strap attached to the car someway permanently. I have placed an LCP in a pocket holster in my center console in a clasped pocket (oh it was just the perfect size for it too), but never again. Thanks for mentioning the flying gun I can't believe I've never thought of it. Just the other day I was talking to someone about car crashes too and how bad loose stuff is.
Off Topic: best way to carry IWB in car concealed (Right handed)?
imported post
Lammo I am extremely sorry, I only read the first and last page of this thread, I did not see the middle three, and I am a newbie here. If I may ask what your name is and what district you represent?
[align=left]Upon rereading the law multiple times I must agree that it is in fact as written illegal to have a loaded pistol in your car in plain view at any time. This also means it is illegal to have a loaded pistol in your glove box, wedged between the seat, in a purse, etc. if you are in the car. If you are in the car the gun must be on you. This is in accordance with the open carry law being you must have a CPL to carry in your car. Openly carrying in your vehicle with a CPL is in accordance with the law. Carry concealed on yourself in a car is legal. This makes perfect sense and is how it is worded. The comma is an "and." It would appear intent is that one always has the gun on themselves, and can only leave the gun in the car if it is out of sight and the vehicle is locked.
So get out of the car and can't bring your gun, hide it in the car and lock it. When you get back you must put the gun on you before you drive. No guns in car when you're moving unless they are on you. This seems to be the intent of the law as written but what about those moments where you are holding the gun and placing it in a hidden place, holding it in your hand, because putting on the seat for a second is obviously illegal. Technically you are in the vehicle and the gun is not hidden so you would be infact in violation of RCW 91.41.050 and are guilty of a misdemeanor. If the law is intent as you say it certainly should be worded the vehicle as "moving" or "not parked" to give one time to place the pistol on/off oneself.
The choices are first either clause II or III. Either you're in the car or not. If not in the car? Clause III says the gun out of sight and car locked. In the car? You have to comply with Clause I which says the gun is on you. Not in a purse, not the glovebox, on you. Seems plain and simple to me. I've read the law hundreds of times and have never considered the comma. I thank you tremendously for saving me and others possible legal trouble. Poorly written laws can be openly interpreted.
[/align]
Lammo I am extremely sorry, I only read the first and last page of this thread, I did not see the middle three, and I am a newbie here. If I may ask what your name is and what district you represent?
[align=left]Upon rereading the law multiple times I must agree that it is in fact as written illegal to have a loaded pistol in your car in plain view at any time. This also means it is illegal to have a loaded pistol in your glove box, wedged between the seat, in a purse, etc. if you are in the car. If you are in the car the gun must be on you. This is in accordance with the open carry law being you must have a CPL to carry in your car. Openly carrying in your vehicle with a CPL is in accordance with the law. Carry concealed on yourself in a car is legal. This makes perfect sense and is how it is worded. The comma is an "and." It would appear intent is that one always has the gun on themselves, and can only leave the gun in the car if it is out of sight and the vehicle is locked.
So get out of the car and can't bring your gun, hide it in the car and lock it. When you get back you must put the gun on you before you drive. No guns in car when you're moving unless they are on you. This seems to be the intent of the law as written but what about those moments where you are holding the gun and placing it in a hidden place, holding it in your hand, because putting on the seat for a second is obviously illegal. Technically you are in the vehicle and the gun is not hidden so you would be infact in violation of RCW 91.41.050 and are guilty of a misdemeanor. If the law is intent as you say it certainly should be worded the vehicle as "moving" or "not parked" to give one time to place the pistol on/off oneself.
The choices are first either clause II or III. Either you're in the car or not. If not in the car? Clause III says the gun out of sight and car locked. In the car? You have to comply with Clause I which says the gun is on you. Not in a purse, not the glovebox, on you. Seems plain and simple to me. I've read the law hundreds of times and have never considered the comma. I thank you tremendously for saving me and others possible legal trouble. Poorly written laws can be openly interpreted.
[/align]
imported post
However besides the in between packing and hiding flaw, or those who carry in a purse or whatnot. Read RCW 9.41.60
RCW 9.41.50 doesn't apply to
blah blah cops and military and....
(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;
(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;
So as long as I'm going to or from a shooting range I'm a member of, I can carry my gun loaded on my passenger seat. I'm going to have to say that 1 comma 2 comma or means as usual in the English language 1 or 2 or 3. Legislative intent is to allow one to have a gun anywhere in their car, but with that wording I will not take my chance because most laws have semi colons where this has commas. However normally it is a;b;c;or d or say a;b;c and d while this is written a,b,or c. Is two subsections separated only by a comma, really not the same subsection? No period, no semicolon, seems to be the same sentence, I am not sure of the rules of RCW's or WAC grammatically. Maybe the comma is an "and" maybe it is an "or." This seems like a serious problem to a very important law. Whether you are right or wrong I'm not going to be the one to find out, and I hope someone brings this law the attention of someone who can rewrite it or interpret it with legal authority. Once again thanks for bringing this up and taking all the flak you've been given.
However besides the in between packing and hiding flaw, or those who carry in a purse or whatnot. Read RCW 9.41.60
RCW 9.41.50 doesn't apply to
blah blah cops and military and....
(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;
(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;
So as long as I'm going to or from a shooting range I'm a member of, I can carry my gun loaded on my passenger seat. I'm going to have to say that 1 comma 2 comma or means as usual in the English language 1 or 2 or 3. Legislative intent is to allow one to have a gun anywhere in their car, but with that wording I will not take my chance because most laws have semi colons where this has commas. However normally it is a;b;c;or d or say a;b;c and d while this is written a,b,or c. Is two subsections separated only by a comma, really not the same subsection? No period, no semicolon, seems to be the same sentence, I am not sure of the rules of RCW's or WAC grammatically. Maybe the comma is an "and" maybe it is an "or." This seems like a serious problem to a very important law. Whether you are right or wrong I'm not going to be the one to find out, and I hope someone brings this law the attention of someone who can rewrite it or interpret it with legal authority. Once again thanks for bringing this up and taking all the flak you've been given.
FMCDH
Regular Member
imported post
GSXtasy wrote:
So, let me get this straight.
Your saying, that you believe, that RCW 9.41.060 isintended as a list ofexceptions to allowhaving a loaded handgun, off-person, in a vehicle by someone who has a CPL, instead of it being a list of exceptionsto allowsomeone to carry a loaded handgun, in a vehicle, without a CPL?
Am Ireading your interpretation correct?
Also...
I would personally think that the fact of with nearly 250000 CPL holders for the state, and not one of them,inRCW 9.41.050's 16 year (current wording) history, has ever been convicted of off-person loaded carry, or even a single personcharged as far as anyone canfind, would speak more to the legislative intent of 9.41.050 than would the contradictory interpretation of 9.41.060 that you are suggesting.
You REALLY need to take another look at these laws and consider how they relate to each other.
GSXtasy wrote:
So, let me get this straight.
Your saying, that you believe, that RCW 9.41.060 isintended as a list ofexceptions to allowhaving a loaded handgun, off-person, in a vehicle by someone who has a CPL, instead of it being a list of exceptionsto allowsomeone to carry a loaded handgun, in a vehicle, without a CPL?
Am Ireading your interpretation correct?
Also...
I would personally think that the fact of with nearly 250000 CPL holders for the state, and not one of them,inRCW 9.41.050's 16 year (current wording) history, has ever been convicted of off-person loaded carry, or even a single personcharged as far as anyone canfind, would speak more to the legislative intent of 9.41.050 than would the contradictory interpretation of 9.41.060 that you are suggesting.
You REALLY need to take another look at these laws and consider how they relate to each other.
911Boss
Member
imported post
GSXtasy wrote:
The more common (and in my opinion, correct) way to read it is as others have said. i OR iiOR iii.
I really don't know why these folks fight it so hard....
GSXtasy wrote:
No, that is your OPINION based on how you are reading it.
The more common (and in my opinion, correct) way to read it is as others have said. i OR iiOR iii.
I really don't know why these folks fight it so hard....
911Boss
Member
imported post
Double tap...disregard
Double tap...disregard
Trigger Dr
Regular Member
imported post
Still fighting this?
Still fighting this?
1245A Defender
Regular Member
imported post
this is not really a case of "not this shit again", this guy says he is a noob, he hasnt read the whole thread, his ramblings show hew doesnt think clearly enough to compreahend, and then calling his odd interpretations a fact.
this is not really a case of "not this shit again", this guy says he is a noob, he hasnt read the whole thread, his ramblings show hew doesnt think clearly enough to compreahend, and then calling his odd interpretations a fact.
imported post
Someone go field test all this talk, random counties and cites around the state.
You know one person gets pull over doing 80, GUN ON DASH (GOD), anothor do the McDonalds Drive thru with GOD,another 7eleven with GOD, church parking lot with GOD, evenat the Department of LicensingwithGOD. Should either come up with good data or case lawproving GOD isgood orGODis bad.
Someone go field test all this talk, random counties and cites around the state.
You know one person gets pull over doing 80, GUN ON DASH (GOD), anothor do the McDonalds Drive thru with GOD,another 7eleven with GOD, church parking lot with GOD, evenat the Department of LicensingwithGOD. Should either come up with good data or case lawproving GOD isgood orGODis bad.
tyguy808
Regular Member
imported post
jbone wrote:
Hallelujah!!!! Amen Brother!!!!
jbone wrote:
Hallelujah!!!! Amen Brother!!!!
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
imported post
For what its worth a reply from DOL on carry in a vehicle off your person
If you have a valid CPL (Concealed Pistol License) you may have your handgun anywhere in the vehicle.
Please note RCW 9.41.050 (1) (b) that states, Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.
So, please be sure that your CPL is on you at all times while have a loaded handgun in the vehicle.
Also, RCW9.41.050(2)(iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(Once you leave your vehicle, it is important to not have the handgun exposed for others to see while passing by. )
If we can be of further assistance please let us know.
Thank you,
Laura Gibson-White
(360) 664-6616
firearms@dol.wa.gov
For what its worth a reply from DOL on carry in a vehicle off your person
If you have a valid CPL (Concealed Pistol License) you may have your handgun anywhere in the vehicle.
Please note RCW 9.41.050 (1) (b) that states, Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.
So, please be sure that your CPL is on you at all times while have a loaded handgun in the vehicle.
Also, RCW9.41.050(2)(iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(Once you leave your vehicle, it is important to not have the handgun exposed for others to see while passing by. )
If we can be of further assistance please let us know.
Thank you,
Laura Gibson-White
(360) 664-6616
firearms@dol.wa.gov