Open Carry experience thread.

[Rusty Young Man]

Well while I was not OC'ing I stopped at Walgreen on my way home from the gym and there was this 20 something dirty looking guy appendix carrying a Glock with no holster, well that raised my alert level from its standard Yellow to Orange. IMO if you look like a dirt bag you are a dirt bag, first impressions are a bitch.

That is the problem with first impressions. Unfortunately, someone is bound to have that image pop up when they hear the term Open Carry. More reason for you and I and others to be out there OCing while looking, dare I say it? Normal.

OT: OCed last Saturday at Sam's Club in Tucson (store #6692) and Funtasticks Family Fun Park (needed to break a $20 bill for the bus; stayed only until it was my turn at the register, but saw no signs or anything other than curious looks).

I had no less than THREE positive encounters: a guy at the bus station thought it was a good thing I carried OPENLY banana, and a man I spoke to while waiting in line at Sam's thought it was kind of neat. He didn't seem to be a gun guy, but knew the terms "Single-Action Only" and "John Browning" when I explained that 1911s were designed to be carried with the hammer cocked back.

The last encounter was with one of the employees at Sam's who seemed to understand the problem with prohibiting employees from carrying; He recognized the 1911, said his brother owned one, and was considering getting one "for home defense". I mentioned that pistols were very convenient to carry around, and that AZ was a Consitutional Carry state, but that I wasn't familiar with Sam's policy for employees. A second employee chimed in, saying she didn't think it would be a good idea because an employee could end up shooting a patron if there was an argument. The first employee immediately pointed out that "stupid people do stupid things" whether they were armed or not, and that it might be better if a good guy was armed if someone came in wanting to hurt people.
For the record, it seemed like the girl didn't really believe the rhetoric, but was going though the motions. Maybe her coworker's words and seeing me OC there without any problems have planted a seed of curiosity.

I think it's safe to say public perception isn't entirely misinformed by the "media" (the "guns are evil" or "guns MAKE people do stupid things" rhetoric). Or maybe OCers are just becoming a more normal sight.

 

[Phoenix David]

...A second employee chimed in, saying she didn't think it would be a good idea because an employee could end up shooting a patron if there was an argument. ...

Wonder if she if afraid if a employee could end up stabbing a patron if there was an argument and if the employees are so filled with rage at the patrons maybe they should find another line of work that doesn't involve interacting with people.

 

[davesnothere]

This last Monday I had decided to OC to the JC Penny Portrait Studio at Arrowhead Mall in Peoria. Then the woman replied saying "You can't have that in here." I didn't see any sign (and made sure not to say this as I know it will promote putting up a stupid sign). I just looked at her and she had me put it in my wife's purse.

You might want to check the other entrances to the mall, or even check the website of the mall property owner. Most of the malls in the Valley have no-firearms policies. They aren't properly posted all the time, especially in the anchor stores (JCPenney, Sears, etc.), but they are usually posted either at the regular entries or the internal entry between the mall and the anchor store. I've heard of people going to the Sears at Superstition Springs Mall in Mesa OC'ing and not having a problem, but being approached by mall representatives to leave the mall as soon as they were found wandering the general public space.

 

[Javelina]

You might want to check the other entrances to the mall, or even check the website of the mall property owner. Most of the malls in the Valley have no-firearms policies. They aren't properly posted all the time, especially in the anchor stores (JCPenney, Sears, etc.), but they are usually posted either at the regular entries or the internal entry between the mall and the anchor store. I've heard of people going to the Sears at Superstition Springs Mall in Mesa OC'ing and not having a problem, but being approached by mall representatives to leave the mall as soon as they were found wandering the general public space.

This is true, all I do is search for sign though, no sign means I must be good to go until told otherwise. Same thing happened at the Carmax I went to yesterday carrying. There was no sign or anything but the old guy who spoke with during my visit told me right off the bat that "they don't permit firearms on the premises." Whatever makes them feel better :lol: on a good note though I got to test drive a mean Ford Mustang, never hit 120 so smoothly before. (Seems my P71 isn't as smooth of a ride.)

 

[davesnothere]

OC while traveling

Special rules on the Indian Nation Lands made OC this past weekend a bit of a pain in the ass.

Further, it seems small town Arizona is stepping backward. I had to remove my gun several times this weekend just to make it through the State.

So, here goes the play-by-play....

My wife and I went looking for new camping sites this weekend, for the upcoming long, holiday weekend. We decided to also take a long drive on the Devil's Highway (formerly numbered 666) in eastern Arizona. Our route took us through the San Carlos and White Mountain Apache Reservations.

Now, I've read the tribal rules, and it seems most comfortable to me to go ahead and follow safe-passage rules as closely as I could, so I unloaded and stowed my gun in the cargo area of my Subaru while crossing the Indian lands. That's difficulty number one. There are a lot of points where you're crossing reservation land. So on both Saturday and Sunday there was a lot of putting on and taking off of my holster and gun. Several roadside stops, which I felt only increased the opportunity for problems.

Next, for stops along the way, there seemed to be "No Firearms" signs everywhere I went. We stopped at a café in Morenci - posted. We stopped at a gas station in Morenci - posted (I pay with cash, so I always go inside - my wife went in so I wouldn't have to unholster). We made the drive all the way to Alpine without incident, but once we got to Springerville just about everywhere we went was posted. My gun belt and holster saw more action than they usually see in a month of carrying.

On the way home from Springerville there were lots of places we stopped that were also posted. I think I'm going to start calling Pinetop-Lakeside "Little South Tahoe, California" for the number of CA plates I saw and all the posted signage I encountered.

It's unbelievable to me that we seem to be winning in the cities and losing in the small towns.

 

[FreeInAZ]

@Dave - sadly I think we will see more of this, for many reasons. Two of them being: the huge influx of people from CA (if it's so great there, why come here?) The Governor vetoed many bills that would have kept little local despots inline with state preemption and support the rights of lawful carriers. ???

What can we do? JOIN AzCDL! Support them in any way you can, be it donations or volunteering. I came from metro Detroit & believe it or not, I had many rights there I do not have here . Carry in public buildings. Carry on school grounds while dropping off & picking up in car (with permit). Carry in some PFZ's openly (with permit). Signs [no carry] having no force of law behind them.

So basically - if not for AzCDL, we'd already be living in the eastern annex of CA! We can fight them hard now, or we can try to dig out from under "their" oppressive earth shoe heals later.
The choice is ours, at least at this point.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Catching up on a few (non-event) posts

OCed last week while out with a few colleagues who apparently didn't know I carried.
One of them was completely indifferent, two were genuinely curious, and one seemed to adhere a bit to the "guns are for cops or bad guys" mentality.
I still count the evening as a win, even if I was asked by the latter fellow: "So I just told my friends (via "snapchat"; it's like Twitter, from what I understood) that you have a gun and they're asking me if I am scared and to get out of here. Could you hold up your gun and aim it at me so I can take a picture and ask them to write me a eulogy?"

The guy seems fairly intelligent in terms of standardized testing, but I find him sorely lacking in common sense.:uhoh:

OCed at Phoenix Sky Harbor today with no issues. Was a little apprehensive, but I had the previous reassurance of a fellow OCer (Hi FreeInAZ) who correctly pointed out that it was not prohibited unless it was in a "secure" area. Had at least 3 employees see my sidearm when I had to ask for directions to the nearest restroom.
New frontier for me, but a horizon no longer.

 

[FreeInAZ]

Hi- Rusty!

Baby steps sir, baby steps. Well done.

On topic OC'd all about town, no issues.

 

[FreeInAZ]

Got to meet up with some fellow OCers for a bite to eat and good conversation in Downtown Phoenix. It was a very nice experience, even with the cook at 5 guys burgers "playing a joke" on us & telling the Amored Car courier that entered the building on a pick-up, that the guys eating outside all had guns and were going to rob him on the way out! I'd call him a retarded person, but that would be a slight to those with true mental handicaps. There's a funny guy in every crowd I guess....wonder how funny Mr. Cook would have found it if he got hit by a round meant for us?

Luckily the crew of the truck did their job and kept their cool, so it all worked out in the end.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

First negative encounter...

This is a story I shared with the cool kids who went to the OC lunch in Phoenix today, and will now share with everyone else:

Went with the family to see the fireworks at Tempe Town Lake, but a friend let us know the line was very long ("at least a block") and we didn't feel like waiting, so we parked at Tempe Marketplace and walked into the lake trail. Had one motorcycle cop see me, but no issues going in or coming out. As usual, kids were the most observant, but no screams or running crowds.

[This is only the second time believed I'd have to draw, but only my first (hopefully also last) negative OC encounter.]
At McDonalds right after, I got the stink eye from a few people, but what really got me to Condition Orange was when an African-American guy came in and wouldn't take his eyes off me. I did my smile and nod, but the guy kept staring at me, really fixating on my 1911. He then began to make a bit of a scene, pointing me out to at least two other patrons and talking about how "that n1gg@ over there's strapped" and "they (I assume bullets?) really hurt" among other bits I was able to hear. He also mentioned something about not knowing what people's intentions are when they are armed.
To his credit, one of the patrons tried to assuage these fears, pointing out that it was Arizona and I wasn't doing anything. On the way out, I decided to thank this patron, but was promptly met with a barrage of questions by the African-American man which eventually led to "yo n1gg@, what's your name?". He starts following me with bravado as I step back towards the door (I'm not about to turn my back on him) and he keeps asking for my name. I'm a fairly private person, and I believe names are only for friends, so I let him know I needed to get going and eventually make it to the door with him following. Once I'm outside, I see him continue to talk to other patrons (probably continuing to disparage visibly armed citizens).
Not sure if I handled it right, but I have the recordings and the McDonalds cameras to corroborate what happened. Bad PR at the least.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Now to the good stuff:
Happy to have met Javelina and PeterNSteinmetz, and it was great seeing FreeInAZ again!
Apparently we looked like undercover cops, with OCed handguns?

The chef (the same one that later made the "joke" about us being there to rob the armored car

) asked about OC, so I explained Constitutional Carry and gave him the link to OCDO on a napkin (what? Maybe if it had been the cute girl instead I would have considered writing my number instead:lol. Hopefully he looks into OC and matures A LOT before he decides to carry.:uhoh:

 

[The Trickster]

This is a story I shared with the cool kids who went to the OC lunch in Phoenix today, and will now share with everyone else:

Went with the family to see the fireworks at Tempe Town Lake, but a friend let us know the line was very long ("at least a block") and we didn't feel like waiting, so we parked at Tempe Marketplace and walked into the lake trail. Had one motorcycle cop see me, but no issues going in or coming out. As usual, kids were the most observant, but no screams or running crowds.

[This is only the second time believed I'd have to draw, but only my first (hopefully also last) negative OC encounter.]
At McDonalds right after, I got the stink eye from a few people, but what really got me to Condition Orange was when an African-American guy came in and wouldn't take his eyes off me. I did my smile and nod, but the guy kept staring at me, really fixating on my 1911. He then began to make a bit of a scene, pointing me out to at least two other patrons and talking about how "that n1gg@ over there's strapped" and "they (I assume bullets?) really hurt" among other bits I was able to hear. He also mentioned something about not knowing what people's intentions are when they are armed.
To his credit, one of the patrons tried to assuage these fears, pointing out that it was Arizona and I wasn't doing anything. On the way out, I decided to thank this patron, but was promptly met with a barrage of questions by the African-American man which eventually led to "yo n1gg@, what's your name?". He starts following me with bravado as I step back towards the door (I'm not about to turn my back on him) and he keeps asking for my name. I'm a fairly private person, and I believe names are only for friends, so I let him know I needed to get going and eventually make it to the door with him following. Once I'm outside, I see him continue to talk to other patrons (probably continuing to disparage visibly armed citizens).
Not sure if I handled it right, but I have the recordings and the McDonalds cameras to corroborate what happened. Bad PR at the least.

He was probably attempting to antagonize you in front of his friends in a pathetic attempt to be humorous and impress them. You should have asked him if he is normally so boisterously obnoxious. Kudos to you for keeping your cool and handling it well.

 

[wimwag]

Ever hear the phrase "there's no such thing as bad publicity?" Like all antis, he assumes that because he thinks he's smart that everyone else is stupid and if you've ever watched an anti harass an OCer from the outside, you'll notice how they talk down to everyone. Nobody else can get a word in. And why should they? It's all about one person and his/her feelings.



Fortunately, nobody is as stupid as the antis think and believe it or not, most people are capable of forming their own opinions and can see you did nothing wrong and aren't a threat. His antics just exposed how childish the antigun side of the argument is to those who might be on the fence.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Got to meet up with some fellow OCers for a bite to eat and good conversation in Downtown Phoenix. It was a very nice experience, even with the cook at 5 guys burgers "playing a joke" on us & telling the Amored Car courier that entered the building on a pick-up, that the guys eating outside all had guns and were going to rob him on the way out!

Did you think he actually said that to the courier? Or was he just kidding us that he had? Wasn't clear to me - but in any case as you noted - not a terribly funny joke!

 

[FreeInAZ]

Did you think he actually said that to the courier? Or was he just kidding us that he had? Wasn't clear to me - but in any case as you noted - not a terribly funny joke!

He did. That is why the driver got out and stood at the rear of the truck. A violation of protocol, but he was trying to cover his man as he exited the building. You see back in the good old days, trucks had gun ports and a third person onboard for extra security (secure asserts and assist in event of attack) today most companies have opted not to have them (ports or guards) as they are a weak point once opened. Today, drivers are instructed to simply drive away if there is an attack on the messenger. So yes, I know he did say that to the messenger, as I went in a spoke to his co-worker and it was confirmed. So one twit endanger all of our lives trying to be cool.

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Did you think he actually said that to the courier? Or was he just kidding us that he had? Wasn't clear to me - but in any case as you noted - not a terribly funny joke!

Yes, I took him at his word because of how much he wanted to have his "funny" streak validated by the other patrons who were eating near us; also, FreeInAZ pointed out that drivers typically do not get out of the vehicle. If you remember, I sent a big smile and a wave towards the driver not once, but TWICE in an effort to calm his fears; in retrospect, I don't think I'd have calmed down much either.

He did. That is why the driver got out and stood at the rear of the truck. A violation of protocol, but he was trying to cover his man as he exited the building.
SNIP...
So one twit endanger all of our lives trying to be cool.

Thanks for the little history lesson; I only knew there was a tendency for the driver to stay behind the wheel and the lone courier to make the trip alone.:shocker: Never knew it was protocol to leave the courier behind though.:uhoh:
Hopefully the chef checks out OCDO and matures a bit, since he did mention his desire to purchase a pistol "for home defense".:uhoh:

 

[Javelina]

Glad it all went good

At the end of the day I am happy that everything went good with us and the armored car guys, not sure why the guy got out to help his buddy. After all wouldn't it be easier to get a shot on both guys out in the open Vs. one sitting in a bulletproof truck? We had them 4 to 2 anyways so they aren't chances I would be willing to take. Anyway it was a good event and I hope more people are able to join us next time (Trickster and Fred are the only 2 I think that I also know that are out in the Valley.) Let me know when something is set up for next month! Have a good one guys!

 

[cloudcroft]

Rusty,

Sounds like that McDonalds loser was a complete nut-case or street-trash on drugs (or both). That's one category of people that you HAVE to take seriously, as anything can happen.

What seems REALLY stupid on their part is even STARTING something -- even giving the stink-eye (or "mad-dogging" you as gangster punks do) -- with a gun-carrier...that alone makes me think the fool was on drugs or 10-7. I mean what normal person would want to hassle someone with a gun? You stare at SOME people a bit too long, and they're ready to fight you. Legally, that (simply LOOKING at someone, as well as any WORDS said) NEVER justify a physical response (let alone lethal response) -- any judge will tell you that in court -- but "Da Judge" ain't out there on the street with you, is he/she, and some people will want to assault you ANYWAY, if they think you're looking at them too long (or wrong)!

Like your "overt admirer" @ McDonalds.

When I was living in the Greater Houston Metroplex area, people like that is one reason I went ahead and got my CC permit (no OC allowed in TX): PLENTY of street-trash there who want to fight if you look at them too long (or what they consider "disrespectful," as if they deserve any respect to begin with). Getting a CHL was the prudent thing to do, partly because I wanted to be sure I got my gun back after even a GOOD shoot -- which I wouldn't if I were carrying illegally (sans permit) like SOME people do in TX.

Anyway, glad it turned out well for you, but he'll do the same thing (or worse, actually assault him/her) to the next OC-er he sees I guess.

Also be aware that some of these people (like gangster punks) will "make" you shoot them -- they will give you no choice -- so if it gets to that point keep them at a safe (non-contact) distance and be sure to oblige them without hesitation.

If I may quote the 'famous' Vanilla Ice: "Word."

;-)

 

[Rusty Young Man]

Best OC encounter with police

I had the absolute best OC encounter with police this Sunday!

First:
Thanks everyone for the reassurance about my first bad encounter.
Cloudcroft, I'm afraid what you said about this guy attacking the next OCer he sees may be true; hopefully any armed LAC who encounters him has thought about and come to terms with the consequences of actually having to use his/her sidearm.

Now about the (non-) encounter I had this past Sunday with two members of the Tucson Police Department: I was at a Subway near the U of A campus (as in, just beyond the boundary) with the family when two officers walked in. Imagine the horror the other patrons must have felt when they saw these officers look at the OCing Law-Abiding Citizen (me) and.... NOT do or say anything about it.:banana::monkey:banana::monkey:banana::monkey:banana::monkey

If the goal of OC with respect to LEOs is to NOT have any encounters, this is by far the best NON-encounter (no questions, no whispers, no calling in backup, etc.) I've ever had.

NOTE: Sorry for taking so long to post and to reply; I've been pretty busy, and with this being my last year as an undergraduate, it'll probably stay that way.

 

[cloudcroft]

Rusty,

Please allow this foreigner (a Coloradan) to horn-in here, if you will...;-)


I had 2 similar "OC non-encounters" with LEOs recently here in Colorado:

1. Was at a coffee shop (a LOCAL business similar to Starbucks, which I stay away from since CEO Shultz prefers we NOT go there anymore) up in Castle Rock and a Castle Rock City Police cop was there in the back along the wall (gunfighter's seat, his back to the wall) doing some sort of paperwork with a lady who had her back to me. He was rather involved with the paperwork but must have noticed I was carrying as I got up a couple of times and my gun is hard to miss...partly because I have a black gun in a brown leather holster, not the usual black holster, so it DOES stand out some.

[Please ignore the blue painter's tape (painted black with a marker) around the grip to be sure my mag doesn't drop out as it did twice earlier, BEFORE I went ghetto with the tape. And YES, I only have 1 mag available to "work" with since it's taped in, that's it, for better or worse. But NO, I do not hold the gun sideways when I shoot -- thanks]

He acted as if I wasn't there so I guess he wasn't concerned. And he probably didn't see my gun as he came in since I was sitting @ a table next to the wall near the windows with my gun cross-draw on my left side (immediately left of my belt buckle) so it was out-of-sight (gun was inside next to the wall, not outside to the aisle).

2. At a restaurant in Colorado Springs, 3 motorcycle cops came in and sat just one table away from me. It was about to do some serious raining out there (serious dark clouds coming into COS from the Front Range to our immediate West) so they decided to stay dry (instead of being out there catching motorists doing something illegal, which could be a good or bad thing argued either way, depending on how you look at it). In that half of the restaurant only two tables had customers: Mine and theirs. There were a very few customers in the middle and other section on the other side of the building.

Anyway, like the Castle Rock cop, they had no way of seeing my cross-draw gun when they all came in, as once again I was sitting near the windows (in a booth this time, my gun again cross-draw on my left side so not visible aisle-side), but they also couldn't MISS my gun when I stood up, and when passing their table twice on my way to/from the restroom; there was no change in their behavior at all. Two of them had their backs to me (as they had not taken the "gunfighter seat" like I always do (and was then) in a restaurant) but I guess the 3rd cop was watching their backs...well, once in a while he was. I mean, considering what happened in that Cici's Pizza place a while back they didn't seem all that "aware" of their surroundings and were mostly engrossed in BS-ing and such. And waiting for it to rain so they had a good reason (I guess) to explain why 3 MC cops were 10-7 at the same time.

I would think that had there been any trouble like @ Cici's, the "suspects" would be completely focused on the cops and not suspecting ME as being any threat (just an innocent unarmed customer in the corner). And as we all know, that's probably logical as VERY FEW people actually CARRY, even CC let alone OC. So criminals hardly ever have to worry about "interference" during a crime...either there is no armed citizen TO interfere, or, all the "bystanders" are busy taking video of the crime on their cellphones rather than getting involved/helping the victim(s). And as we know, there's unlikely to be any armed security in most places, either.

[To be fair though, one CAN'T get involved if unarmed, as it's most likely a suicide mission (criminals would simply shoot them). Being armed gives one some "help" (and the 'tool') to get involved. Citizens shouldn't be put into the position of having to 'suicidally' charge/overcome/bum-rush an armed shooter -- they SHOULD be allowed to CARRY. At least that way ALL the 'participants' would have the same cards to play...]

But that's okay...I had their back, too, and I could see the door better than they anyway. ;-)

Of course, this being Colorado (but not in DENVER remember, which bans OC), one could EXPECT an OC non-encounter with LEOs in this state. So I don't think any of the servers (or manager) probably expected anything different, either. Besides they know me by now, and even if they never had any regular OC customers before (and I've only seen ONE OC-er in that particular eatery the entire year I've been going there), they've HAD one ever since I came to town! So by now I guess I've shown them (and quite a few other eateries in COS) that I'm one of the good guys...well, at least I've showed them I'm fairly 'normal' and there's nothing to worry about -- which is one goal of OC-ing: To show people there's nothing to worry about!

CO city cops USED to hassle OCers apparently, but that was the "Old Days" (even if not THAT long ago) and they've learned by now that OC IS OKAY -- if for no other reason to avoid more lawsuits -- so CO cops should be pretty well up-to-speed nowadays.

I hope...

[I'm sure when TEXAS gets OC, this same "evolution" will take place -- some cops hassling OCers in the beginning -- until the lawsuits put a stop to it. And then the CITIZENS of TX will have to get used to seeing OC-ers out & about, too, so at first there may be lots of MWAG calls made. But that's the process of adjusting to newly-introduced OC laws (WHEN it happens in TX -- but just imagine HI's surprise and confusion if it ever happens THERE). As for CC-ers of TX, they won't/don't change the scene at all since no one knows they're carrying.]

Sorry for using AZ bandwidth here for a "non-encounter OC-ing report" from CO...I'm leaving now!

[BTW: In the Colorado sub-forum, we don't have an "Open Carry Experience Thread" like you do here for AZ, so I had to use yours ;-) ]

Happy OC-ing...


************************************************

P.S. Sounds like you're going to graduate soon? Hope you picked a degree that will get/keep you employed (and preferably, doing something you LIKE rather then just for the $$). Best wishes in your future endeavors/career...

As Mr. Spock would say, "Live Long [partly due to carrying] and Prosper." ;-)