Open carry is more than open carry

[Jeff Hayes]

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

NewZealandAmerican wrote:

Crackshot wrote:

We do live in a democracy, right? Majority rules, and all that?



I sure hope we don't live in a "democracy!" A democracy is 2 wolves and one sheep voting on who to have for lunch! Or in other words where the majority gets to vote away the RIGHTS of the minority example 51% of the people voting away the RIGHTS of the 49%!Here in these united States of America we are suppose to have a Constitutional REPUBLIC (NOT a democracy)where the RIGHTS of the individual are supreme. Only individuals have RIGHTS! Groups, associations, collectives,Government agencies etc have privileges. However in practice todayAmerica is malfunctioningas a democracy instead of a REPUBLIC!

+1

"America is malfunctioningas a democracy instead of a REPUBLIC!" No truer words have been spoken.

 

[N6ATF]

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2 t/t chest 1 t/t head wrote:

I truly have nothing against open carry but why make yourself a target.

A target of what? Police harassment? Why should we bend to the harassers' wills and stop open carrying (which in most cases prohibits us from exercising the RKBA altogether, since concealment equals taxation)?

 

[Bikenut]

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2 t/t chest 1 t/t head wrote:

I truly have nothing against open carry but why make yourself a target.

Something to consider Sir:

When a person is open carrying the criminal can plainly see his intended victim has the means to defend him/her self from an attack. In short, a difficult target.

When a person is concealed carrying he/she looks exactly like all the other possible victims to the criminal. In short, just like all the other easy targets.

Open carry sends a message to criminals and sends him looking for easier prey stopping the attack before it even begins.

Concealed carry sends no message and is only useful for stopping the attack after the attack begins.

I posted these things for consideration only... you, and everyone else, are free to make their own decisions according to their own wishes/life styles/beliefs.

Open carry has many benefits... political and personal.

 

[2 t/t chest 1 t/t head]

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Being raised in a law enforcement family and a officer myself for some years I truly have no problem with anyone that wises to open carry, my comment was for those that wish to think before waving a flag at those that mean them harm, criminals determined to comment a crime will not care or take in to consideration the fact if some one is O.C. or concealed, O.C. will defiantly give them tunnel vision on you. Understanding criminal behavior & human behavior will almost grantee the first round will be directed at you & at close range, some will find that being aware of your seroundings at all times or should I say "code yellow' is the only thing that will be the deciding factor in who is quicker to the draw.

 

[MatieA]

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2 t/t chest 1 t/t head wrote:

>snip

criminals determined to comment a crime will not care or take in to consideration the fact if some one is O.C. or concealed, O.C. will defiantly give them tunnel vision on you. Understanding criminal behavior & human behavior will almost grantee the first round will be directed at you & at close range, some will find that being aware of your seroundings at all times or should I say "code yellow' is the only thing that will be the deciding factor in who is quicker to the draw.

Prove it. I have open-carried carried for years, long before I had ever heard of any open-carry movement. I have seen several people enter an establishment that I was in and then leave in a rush without purchasing anything. Can I prove that they were there to do something illegal?? No, But I have never been shot at or even threatened while open-carrying either. In fact as a general rule people tend to be a lot more polite when someone non-LEO is open-carrying in their vicinity.

 

[N6ATF]

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2 t/t chest 1 t/t head wrote:

Being raised in a law enforcement family and a officer myself for some years I truly have no problem with anyone that wises to open carry, my comment was for those that wish to think before waving a flag at those that mean them harm, criminals determined to comment a crime will not care or take in to consideration the fact if some one is O.C. or concealed, O.C. will defiantly give them tunnel vision on you. Understanding criminal behavior & human behavior will almost grantee the first round will be directed at you & at close range, some will find that being aware of your seroundings at all times or should I say "code yellow' is the only thing that will be the deciding factor in who is quicker to the draw.

FUD.

Those who actually do understand criminal and human behavior [size="-1"](Professors James D. Wright and Peter H. Rossi) [/size]have found otherwise.

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=117

[size="-1"][/size]

Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."

A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." In asking felons what they personally thought about while committing crimes, 34% indicated that they thought about getting "shot at by police" or "shot by victim."

Significantly, almost 40% said there was at least one time when the criminal "decided not to do a crime because [he] knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun."

[size="-1"][/size]
Statistics aside, even anecdotal evidence does not reveal any significant incidence of criminals targeting gun carriers first, if committing any crime at all in the gun carrier's vicinity. Quite the opposite.

 

[2 t/t chest 1 t/t head]

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I do not believe there is statistics on such proof. So no I can not give you factual proof, I can only give what I have seen first hand & with a saddened heart because of it. As for the people you speak of " leaving the establishment that I was in and then leave in a rush without purchasing anything" your right no one could ever know the reason for there quick exit, I've seen the same & I don't O.C. & I don't believe you can prove it was because O.C. ether, you see I call those that exit quickly wannabe criminals if they were criminals at all, no one could know. I have been face to face with heartless criminals that had no remorse at all whether there victim was armed or not. I have also seen humans dead cold that did not carry at all & those that did O.C., do to a criminal element wanting to test there quickness & reaction & for that reason alone or just to see what it is like to kill some one. Crimes of opportunity do not dictat who is armed at that given moment. Don't get me wrong I truly wise that all decent citizenry O.C. That alone could almost determine a safe walk to the store on any given day but who knows. As for making people more polite, unfortunately you have never meet some of the same people that I have & I'm glad you have not.

 

[Task Force 16]

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2 t/t chest 1 t/t head wrote:

Being raised in a law enforcement family and a officer myself for some years I truly have no problem with anyone that wises to open carry, my comment was for those that wish to think before waving a flag at those that mean them harm, criminals determined to comment a crime will not care or take in to consideration the fact if some one is O.C. or concealed, O.C. will defiantly give them tunnel vision on you. Understanding criminal behavior & human behavior will almost grantee the first round will be directed at you & at close range, some will find that being aware of your seroundings at all times or should I say "code yellow' is the only thing that will be the deciding factor in who is quicker to the draw.

I believe what you are referring to here is risk. May I respectfully point out to you that life is full of risks.

There is a risk of being seriously injured or killed in driving an automobile, yet we do it everyday. Should we stop driving to avoid that risk?

There is a risk of being killed in a plane crash, yet people do it all the time. Should we all stop flying to our destinations, to avoid that risk?

I could go and on, sir.

I would rather live with the infinitesimal risk of being targeted by adetermined psychowhile OCing, than the higher risk of having to react to a criminal attack while CCing. Statistically, both risks are very low. One is much lower.

I might also add, sir, that most (if not all of us) on this forum realize that carrying a handgun (OC or CC) is by no means a 100% gaurantee that any of us will survive a criminal attck or come away from one unscathed.

 

[N00blet45]

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I'm a target when I'm not OCing too. Does that then mean that I should carry? I think it does.

Most criminals are dishonorable and prefer their victims unarmed. How many criminals have you heard say, "Well I was going to shoot him but he was unarmed so I decided not to."?

 

[Bikenut]

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N6ATF wrote:

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?ID=117

[size="-1"][/size]

Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."

A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." In asking felons what they personally thought about while committing crimes, 34% indicated that they thought about getting "shot at by police" or "shot by victim."

Significantly, almost 40% said there was at least one time when the criminal "decided not to do a crime because [he] knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun."

I have a theory...............

The job of police is to arrest/detain criminals and they have a regimented policy/process of how to treat a criminal. A process that is required in order to ensure the arrest is a good one. And criminals know this. Criminals also know just how far they can "push the envelope" before an officer can, according to policy, use deadly force.

Citizens do not have any duty to arrest/detain criminals. Citizens do not have any process/policy they must adhere to as far as how the criminal is treated. Citizens have only one legal criteria to adhere to and that is whether or not the criminal presents an immediate danger to life or limb before they can respond with deadly force. And the criminals know this.

Hence, criminals fear the armed citizen more than they fear the armed police.

Which makes the on duty experiences of LEO's not applicable to what OC'ing citizens experience.... or how the criminal views an OC'ing citizen.

And apparently there is statistical evidence that this theory has some merit.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

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This mentality of making yourself a target is just completely wrong.

Edit: to clarify I am referring to the LEO's comments posted here.

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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You guys floor me.
There is NO BETTER WAY to regain/protect any right than by EXERCISING that right.
Change your way of thinking from "I'm a target" to "I'm advancing a cause."

Several months ago, Clint Eastwood referred to the "pussified generation."
Can't help but wonder, did he visit here?

 

[2 t/t chest 1 t/t head]

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This the complete reason for my first comment,
***********
"I might also add, sir, that most (if not all of us) on this forum realize that carrying a handgun (OC or CC) is by no means a 100% guarantee that any of us will survive a criminal attack or come away from one unscathed."
***********
It is the reason I carry both ways.

 

[2 t/t chest 1 t/t head]

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As for the theory: You may want to resource some judicial aspects:

Justified Deadly Force: (1) Means
(2) Intent
(3)Ability

I do agree with the above "Statistical evidence that this theory has some merit."
And glad to see the percentages are in the armed citizens favor.

 

[Venator]

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Task Force 16 wrote:

I've been carrying for almost 15 months, now. I OC everyday, everywhere I go that is legal. I have yet to have a negative encounter with anyone over it.All comments about my sidearms are very positive or inquisative. I don't know where this "majority" of anti-gun folks are but they sure aren't where I live.

In fact, I was thanked for being armed one time, while at a TEA Party in down town Nashville, at Legislative PLaza.

I agree with Mike that OC is more than just excercising our 2A Rights. It's an excercise in Independence, Self-reliance, and Self-determination. If some folks can't handle that, it's just too damned bad.

Mike posted it, but the post was written by me, just saying.

 

[2 t/t chest 1 t/t head]

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This also has merit:

"There is NO BETTER WAY to regain/protect any right than by EXERCISING that right.
Change your way of thinking from "I'm a target" to "I'm advancing a cause."

As for the second part, I have never considered my self a target & never will. I only advance the Oath I voiced & adhere to it at all times. oathkeepers.org/oath/

 

[2 t/t chest 1 t/t head]

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Now this:

"Several months ago, Clint Eastwood referred to the "pussified generation."
Can't help but wonder, did he visit here?

You may refer to me in any way you see fit, I have been isolated by the worst & it has never adhered to me not even once.

My comments here are not to discreet O.C., Only to give some sound advise to cover your A$$.

 

[Task Force 16]

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2 t/t chest 1 t/t head wrote:

My comments here are not to discreet O.C., Only to give some sound advise to cover your A$$.

"covering our butts" is part of what this forum is about. Many new members come here with certain misperceptions that are often changed after reading and participating in the discussions here. I, myself, once thought that some of the current gun control laws were a good thing. I've since changed my mind, now believing that they are all failures in their intent, and should be repealed.

 

[mark edward marchiafava]

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With a ton of patient persistence, the city of Amite Louisiana finally repealed their anti-OC ordinance.
It CAN be done.

 

[Master Doug Huffman]

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Merry Christmas Mark Edward Marchiafava