Open Carry *MAY* already be legal - An Assignment

[Aknazer]

But you can't sleep it off in your car in the parking lot after drinking too much, because you're in "actual physical control of the vehicle" while passed out in the back seat.

Your chances are better to just go ahead and drive drunk. OK has some seriously messed up laws.

(I can say that, because my mother was born outside Marlow, and her father was born in OIT, in what is now Love County.)

I was recently briefed by a cop from the metro (he came on base for a "victim's impact panel" about drunk driving) and when asked he said that you were fine if you're in the back seat and that you would only get in trouble if your in the driver's seat because it's too easy to just start up the car and drive away.

 

[KBCraig]

I was recently briefed by a cop from the metro (he came on base for a "victim's impact panel" about drunk driving) and when asked he said that you were fine if you're in the back seat and that you would only get in trouble if your in the driver's seat because it's too easy to just start up the car and drive away.

It's been 25 years since I was stationed at Sill, but we had a guy busted for DWI in Lawton. He was asleep in the front passenger seat with it reclined all the way, with the keys in his pocket.

 

[okboomer]

But you can't sleep it off in your car in the parking lot after drinking too much, because you're in "actual physical control of the vehicle" while passed out in the back seat.

Your chances are better to just go ahead and drive drunk. OK has some seriously messed up laws.

(I can say that, because my mother was born outside Marlow, and her father was born in OIT, in what is now Love County.)

Yep, Southern Baptist Bible Belt :lol:

Still can't dance in the streets of Tecumseh :monkey

 

[okboomer]

I was recently briefed by a cop from the metro (he came on base for a "victim's impact panel" about drunk driving) and when asked he said that you were fine if you're in the back seat and that you would only get in trouble if your in the driver's seat because it's too easy to just start up the car and drive away.

That's what he might have told you, but if they want to use it against you, they will. Don't forget, each jurisdiction makes it's own interpretation and application of the laws.

Same if they pull the designated driver over for speeding, and then have the other drunk occupants exit the vehicle ... they will and do arrest the occupants for public intox. Seen it happen too many times when I was a bail bondsman.

 

[Aknazer]

That's what he might have told you, but if they want to use it against you, they will. Don't forget, each jurisdiction makes it's own interpretation and application of the laws.

Same if they pull the designated driver over for speeding, and then have the other drunk occupants exit the vehicle ... they will and do arrest the occupants for public intox. Seen it happen too many times when I was a bail bondsman.

Oh ya I didn't really trust him, was just relaying what he had said. I wanted to ask about carrying while "under the influence" is since the law doesn't classify what is considered "under the influence" in the gun section but I didn't trust what he would say.

Funny that you would mention public intoxication. Another person in the crowd asked about that in regards to helping get a drunk person home and he had said that they wouldn't bust you and would even help to get you home

 

[flybeech]

We the sheeple have been given obedience training to believe open carry is illegal.

I've been looking at the law everywhere I can and it appears that open carry is already legal, but not exercised and apparently just assumed to be illegal. I've asked police and the OSBI what law a person who is arrested for openly carrying would be charged with and couldn't get an answer. Let me refer to section 1289.6, paragraph six of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act as the basis for what I believe.

Title 21, Section 1289.6 "CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH FIREARMS MAY BE CARRIED" in the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act says, "A person SHALL BE PERMITTED to CARRY LOADED or unloaded shotguns, rifles and pistols, OPEN and not concealed, and WITHOUT a handgun license as authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 26 of this act, pursuant to the following conditions:

Item 6. For FOR ANY LEGITIMATE PURPOSE not in violation of the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17 of this title or any legislative enactment regarding the use, ownership and control of firearms."

A call to someone at OSBI who identified herself as an attorney, said that open carry is prohibited under Section 1272 "UNLAWFUL CARRY", which says;

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, spring-type knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed, except this section shall not prohibit:

2. The carrying or use of weapons in a manner otherwise permitted by statute or authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act;

Exception number 2 of section 1272 says "The carrying or use of weapons in a manner otherwise permitted by statute or authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act" leads me right back to section 1289.6, paragraph 6 which allows open carry of a pistol, WITHOUT a license for ANY LEGITIMATE PURPOSE. The only legitimate purpose besides the previous 5 paragraphs I can possibly think of is for the purpose of self-defense, but nowhere is "any legitimate purpose" defined, but how do you need to define ANY legitimate purpose? Obviously, using a firearm to hold up a 7-11 isn't any legitimate purpose and any reasonable person is likely to say carrying a firearm for self-defense is 'any legitimate purpose'.

It appears that any person who is not prohibited from legally owning a firearm is also permitted to openly carry a loaded pistol anywhere they want, except for a motor vehicle, or a prohibited place. What law exists today that prevents unlicensed open carry anywhere except for prohibited places and motor vehicles, or by prohibited personnel, as defined in the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17? Title 21, Section 1289.6 "CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH FIREARMS MAY BE CARRIED" in the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act is clear. Unless I am unable to find something that contradicts section 1289.6, not only is there not a law that says we can't openly carry a loaded pistol, 1289.6 specifically says we can.

Have we had legal open carry in the State of Oklahoma since the passage of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act and failure to exercise this right has just led to the assumption that it is illegal?

 

[Aknazer]

The issue is what LAW says that OCing for self-defense is a "legitimate purpose?" Yes the Constitution says it, but cops and legislators don't really care about that, they want some law that says it. So until there is case-law or an official opinion stating it is legal then you run the issue of being arrested for "unlawful carry." If you can afford the legal fight by all means please OC and set the precedence.

 

[Grapeshot]

The issue is what LAW says that OCing for self-defense is a "legitimate purpose?" Yes the Constitution says it, but cops and legislators don't really care about that, they want some law that says it. So until there is case-law or an official opinion stating it is legal then you run the issue of being arrested for "unlawful carry." If you can afford the legal fight by all means please OC and set the precedence.

The absence of a law stating that such and such is illegal leaves it by default legal. There is no law stating that you can wear a red shirt, but it is decidedly legal....by the absence of a law prohibiting such.

You might ask a member of your legislature to request an opinion from the state attorney general - craft the question carefully though as the wording will direct the answer to some degree. Such an opinion being positive would go a long way towards your goals.

 

[hermannr]

Hej Grapeshot: The whole problem stems from OK law 1272 which bans ALL carry, and then makes exceptions. All that needs to be done is add the word "Concealed" to the first sentence of 1272 and the whole problem dissapears.

IMHO 1272 is unconstitutional as it is presently written because the OK constitution (section 28) says that the people have a "right" to carry for personal self defence, but the legislature may regulate that.

IMHO, to ban and the make exceptions is not regulating. The Idaho constitution is written the same way the OK is written, and their courts have said the legislature can regulate concealed carry, but not OC, (or v/v, but not both) because to regulate both would constitute a burden on a right, thereby negating that right. OK courts have not seen to do the same. (all the way back to the 1920s)

 

[Grapeshot]

Hej Grapeshot: The whole problem stems from OK law 1272 which bans ALL carry, and then makes exceptions. All that needs to be done is add the word "Concealed" to the first sentence of 1272 and the whole problem dissapears.

IMHO 1272 is unconstitutional as it is presently written because the OK constitution (section 28) says that the people have a "right" to carry for personal self defence, but the legislature may regulate that.

IMHO, to ban and the make exceptions is not regulating. The Idaho constitution is written the same way the OK is written, and their courts have said the legislature can regulate concealed carry, but not OC, (or v/v, but not both) because to regulate both would constitute a burden on a right, thereby negating that right. OK courts have not seen to do the same. (all the way back to the 1920s)

Appreciate the clarification and the distinction between your constitution (on which I was relying) and 1272.

Keep fighting the good fight. In the meanwhile, I'll learn to read/listen more and talk less about things with which I am not fully up to speed. :uhoh:

 

[hrdware]

I've been looking at the law everywhere I can and it appears that open carry is already legal, but not exercised and apparently just assumed to be illegal. I've asked police and the OSBI what law a person who is arrested for openly carrying would be charged with and couldn't get an answer. Let me refer to section 1289.6, paragraph six of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act as the basis for what I believe.

Title 21, Section 1289.6 "CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH FIREARMS MAY BE CARRIED" in the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act says, "A person SHALL BE PERMITTED to CARRY LOADED or unloaded shotguns, rifles and pistols, OPEN and not concealed, and WITHOUT a handgun license as authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 26 of this act, pursuant to the following conditions:

Item 6. For FOR ANY LEGITIMATE PURPOSE not in violation of the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17 of this title or any legislative enactment regarding the use, ownership and control of firearms."

A call to someone at OSBI who identified herself as an attorney, said that open carry is prohibited under Section 1272 "UNLAWFUL CARRY", which says;

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, spring-type knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed, except this section shall not prohibit:

2. The carrying or use of weapons in a manner otherwise permitted by statute or authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act;

Exception number 2 of section 1272 says "The carrying or use of weapons in a manner otherwise permitted by statute or authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act" leads me right back to section 1289.6, paragraph 6 which allows open carry of a pistol, WITHOUT a license for ANY LEGITIMATE PURPOSE. The only legitimate purpose besides the previous 5 paragraphs I can possibly think of is for the purpose of self-defense, but nowhere is "any legitimate purpose" defined, but how do you need to define ANY legitimate purpose? Obviously, using a firearm to hold up a 7-11 isn't any legitimate purpose and any reasonable person is likely to say carrying a firearm for self-defense is 'any legitimate purpose'.

It appears that any person who is not prohibited from legally owning a firearm is also permitted to openly carry a loaded pistol anywhere they want, except for a motor vehicle, or a prohibited place. What law exists today that prevents unlicensed open carry anywhere except for prohibited places and motor vehicles, or by prohibited personnel, as defined in the Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971, Sections 1289.1 through 1289.17? Title 21, Section 1289.6 "CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH FIREARMS MAY BE CARRIED" in the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act is clear. Unless I am unable to find something that contradicts section 1289.6, not only is there not a law that says we can't openly carry a loaded pistol, 1289.6 specifically says we can.

Have we had legal open carry in the State of Oklahoma since the passage of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act and failure to exercise this right has just led to the assumption that it is illegal?

2 issues. First, 1289.6 is not part of the Oklahoma Self Defense Act, that starts at 1290. Second, there is case law that was set back in the 20's (who everyone agrees was incorrectly interpreted), that judges will rely on and cite as reason for it being illegal.

There are a lot of us that believe it is already legal but don't have the financial resources or the time resources to be the test case. As such the only recourse is to try and get our legislature to change the law to make it legal.

 

[KBCraig]

Hej Grapeshot: The whole problem stems from OK law 1272 which bans ALL carry, and then makes exceptions. All that needs to be done is add the word "Concealed" to the first sentence of 1272 and the whole problem dissapears.

IMHO 1272 is unconstitutional as it is presently written because the OK constitution (section 28) says that the people have a "right" to carry for personal self defence, but the legislature may regulate that.

IMHO, to ban and the make exceptions is not regulating.

This is exactly the same situation we have south of the Red River. The Texas Constitution of 1876 says:

Article I, SEC. 23. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power by law to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.

...and then the Legislature "regulated" by banning carry of handguns, with exceptions. When the Texas CHL law passed in 1995, it too was an exception to the ban, but only excepted concealed handguns, and even included a penalty for failure to conceal.

Carpetbaggers.

 

[OKIE2]

Lost open carry when ?

I would like to know what year with what law
did we loose the right to open carry in Oklahoma.

 

[Grapeshot]

I would like to know what year with what law
did we loose the right to open carry in Oklahoma.

No single, simple answer to that - read this thread from the beginning.

Then have at the following:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...rry-really-completely-legal-in-Oklahoma-today