Open Carrying in Vehicle without a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) - STICKY

[Virginian683]

...my question is can you leave it in the GB if you go somewhere that doesn't allow carry or is not legal (post office, school, work, etc.) and you get out of the vehicle. Does it then have to be unloaded and locked in a container?

No. There is no law in VA that requires it to be unloaded.

For example, if you don't have a CHP and you don't carry the gun secured in a container or compartment in a vehicle (§ 18.2-308.B.10), say in your pants pocket, or under the seat, it would be the same concealed weapon charge whether it is loaded or empty. Loaded or unloaded is irrelevant in VA (at least with handguns).

Trust me if I leave it in the vehicle I plan on locking it in the GB, especially considering someone may see me place it in there. I do have a car alarm, but most people ignore them nowadays.

I think locking it is a good idea if you are leaving it in the car, but you are not required to.

I would not get too concerned about people seeing you handling your gun in your car. A lot of people don't even notice openly carried guns on people in public, let alone what you are doing in your car. A majority of people in this world are walking around in "condition white" meaning they have no idea what other people are doing around them.

My wife and I have applied for our CHPs so within 45 days we will have them. Do the rules change when we have our permits?

No, except you will be able to carry a concealed handgun. You will still be able to have a handgun secured in a container or compartment of a vehicle without any permit.

 

[TFred]

So my question is can you leave it in the GB if you go somewhere that doesn't allow carry or is not legal (post office, school, work, etc.) and you get out of the vehicle. Does it then have to be unloaded and locked in a container? Trust me if I leave it in the vehicle I plan on locking it in the GB, especially considering someone may see me place it in there. I do have a car alarm, but most people ignore them nowadays.

Nobody else addressed this bold part yet... pretty important to get it right.

The only place the "secured container" exception helps you [with regard to places that are banned by a government entity] is on school property - the general prohibition of carrying on school property follows the exception section of the CHP law, which is where this "secured container" statement is located. It has nothing to do with the Post Office, and nothing to do with any private property. There is a case under way out west about carrying onto USPS property (even the parking lot is currently prohibited), and private property is still private property... no "parking lot law" yet for the general population, and your consequences for violating a private property owner's "policy" will range from none to being fired on the spot and prosecuted for trespassing.

TFred

 

[Virginian683]

The only place the "secured container" exception helps you is on school property - the general prohibition of carrying on school property follows the exception section of the CHP law, which is where this "secured container" statement is located. It has nothing to do with the Post Office, and nothing to do with any private property. There is a case under way out west about carrying onto USPS property (even the parking lot is currently prohibited), and private property is still private property... no "parking lot law" yet for the general population, and your consequences for violating a private property owner's "policy" will range from none to being fired on the spot and prosecuted for trespassing.

The "secured in a container/compartment" provision also helps you if for whatever reason you do not want to open carry, but want a loaded gun in your vehicle, including if you get pulled over on the highway. But right, it doesn't trump private property rights or laws/regulations about federal property.

18.2-308 is the statute where this law is located (section B.10). Nothing in the statute says anything about school grounds. I think you are referring to 18.2-308.1, which makes it a felony to carry on K-12 grounds. Section C of that statute lays out some exemptions and says in part:

"The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section."

So it would appear to apply also to K-12. But now that I read the statute, I am not so sure about it. Section C.(vi) exempts:

"a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container..."

So according to that section it has to be unloaded. Not being a lawyer I am not sure which provision (18.2-308 B.10 or 18.2-308.1 C.vi) would prevail because they appear to me to be contradictory. (The first says nothing about being unloaded, the second says unloaded.) We're talking about a person without a CHP.

 

[TFred]

The "secured in a container/compartment" provision also helps you if for whatever reason you do not want to open carry, but want a loaded gun in your vehicle, including if you get pulled over on the highway. But right, it doesn't trump private property rights or laws/regulations about federal property.

I updated my post to clarify the context.

As far as the two sections you mention, they don't seem to be mutually exclusive, so I wouldn't assume they can't both exist. There are simply two ways to not be violating the ban on school carry. But we'd need someone like User to chime in and tell us for sure.

TFred

 

[Bowesmobile]

Thank you!

This thread has answered all my questions about open carry in the car. Until I read this I was a little concerned about where to keep my open carry gun when driving. This is an awesome site! Thank you to all who have helped put this together!:banana:

 

[TFred]

This thread has answered all my questions about open carry in the car. Until I read this I was a little concerned about where to keep my open carry gun when driving. This is an awesome site! Thank you to all who have helped put this together!:banana:

Welcome! Your last line gave me a chuckle. We live here, this board and it's collection of information and knowledge is for all of us... it's almost like going to visit someone for dinner and then thanking them for building such a nice house!

TFred

 

[Grapeshot]

Welcome! Your last line gave me a chuckle. We live here, this board and it's collection of information and knowledge is for all of us... it's almost like going to visit someone for dinner and then thanking them for building such a nice house!

TFred

It is the "People's House" where all are invited to sit at the table and share, educate, and learn. Darn fine group too.

 

[TFred]

It is the "People's House" where all are invited to sit at the table and share, educate, and learn. Darn fine group too.

To all the new folks, future visitors, etc:

Come on in... sit for a while... join in the conversation... throw a brick on the mantle for yourself!

TFred

 

[Bowesmobile]

Sounds good to me! I know that sometimes we all need a "at-a-boy". I'll take my seat at the table and do what I can to contribute!

 

[Recon by Fire]

Stupid question I guess....

But why not just get a CCP?

 

[mk4]

But why not just get a CCP?

how about the opposite question: *why* get one?
it doesn't make "open carrying in vehicle without a chp", any more legal.

welcome to ocdo va: open carry dot org.

 

[TFred]

But why not just get a CCP?

Remember, you're in Virginia now, where carrying a firearm for self-defense is a RIGHT, not a privilege granted by the government.

Once you get used to it, you'll feel much more comfortable.

TFred

 

[Grapeshot]

But why not just get a CCP?

Why?

 

[skidmark]

But why not just get a CCP?

OK, I waited. Enough time has gone by.

The specific answer to your question is "Because there is no such thing as a CCP in Virginia."

Yes, we all know what you meant. But it's almost required here to remind the newbie that Virginia issues Concealed Handgun Permits (CHP). Years ago it used to be a Concealed Weapons Permit but all the other fun stuff was horse-traded away for shall issue. Not that I'd prefer not to have shall issue.

And welcome to OCDO. Go join VCDL www.vcdl.org . Sign up for the free VCDL email newsletter.

And come to the OC breakfast and dinners.

There, I think I've covered it all.

stay safe.

 

[Recon by Fire]

OK, I waited. Enough time has gone by.

The specific answer to your question is "Because there is no such thing as a CCP in Virginia."

Yes, we all know what you meant. But it's almost required here to remind the newbie that Virginia issues Concealed Handgun Permits (CHP). Years ago it used to be a Concealed Weapons Permit but all the other fun stuff was horse-traded away for shall issue. Not that I'd prefer not to have shall issue.

And welcome to OCDO. Go join VCDL www.vcdl.org . Sign up for the free VCDL email newsletter.

And come to the OC breakfast and dinners.

There, I think I've covered it all.

stay safe.

Thanks.

 

[Patriot2A]

No, it does not.

Good safety practices say that it "should" either be secured by a holster of some sort to prevent other objects from engaging the trigger/getting stuck in the trigger guard or be the only item in the console.

stay safe.

Hey, I'm a little late, but what's the age to have my loaded handgun secured in my center console? I know I don't need a CHP, but do you have to be 18 or 21?

 

[Grapeshot]

Hey, I'm a little late, but what's the age to have my loaded handgun secured in my center console? I know I don't need a CHP, but do you have to be 18 or 21?

You may do everything legal at 18 regarding guns, except buy from a FFL and CC - secured in a console is not CC.

 

[Patriot2A]

You may do everything legal at 18 regarding guns, except buy from a FFL and CC - secured in a console is not CC.

Alright thanks. Is there a cite? All the cites I've read didn't say anything about age. And this guy I work with is swearing up and down that you must be 21 with a handgun to carry secured in your car without a chp.

 

[Grapeshot]

Alright thanks. Is there a cite? All the cites I've read didn't say anything about age. And this guy I work with is swearing up and down that you must be 21 with a handgun to carry secured in your car without a chp.

When age is not mentioned, it is not a factor other than being legal to individually possess.

Remember laws are primarily written to tell what you cannot do, not what is otherwise legal. It is the absence of any such restriction that makes it legal.

There is no law saying that you can OC at 18 years of age, but none restricting it. Similar with console storage, no restriction requiring a CHP; therefore no permit needed.

Your friend may be confusing the CHP requirement while on school property (ingress & egress) to pick someone up:

§ 18.2-308.1.B (paragraph two) (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

Anywhere else not mentioned, is legal w/o a permit and in console/glove box or on your hip.

 

[TFred]

Just to clarify a little (or muddy, as the case may be...)

In the case of storage in a secured container in a vehicle, we have a double negative, which sort of does amount to a law that tells you what you can do.

The CHP law says you may not carry a gun in a concealed manner, but then they added to the list of exceptions, the fact that you may carry a gun in a secured container in your vehicle.

See Paragraph A and then paragraph B.10.

So... since a double negative makes a positive, technically, the law in this case does actually say you may carry a concealed gun in your car, IF it is in a secured container.

But as Grape notes, this is certainly the exception, and not the rule.

TFred