OT: Another Washington Kid Shot

[BigDave]

RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and:

• (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person,
• (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or
• (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

There has been disagreement by some about the meaning of locked within the vehicle, would that be as long as the doors are locked or locked in glove box or safe within the vehicle.

To have a firearm around children, of these ages unsupervised is neglectful and cost lives.

As to the comment about how likely the doors not being locked with the children inside is ridiculous, how often do we hear that children were locked in a car unattended, this happens way to often.

Next we will hear is that the child should be charged for illegal possession.

 

[kparker]

because the fact pattern is different

WA state , unlike many states, does not have laws that address the car situation.

/QUOTE]

Ahem: RCW 9.41.050 2(a)

 

[PALO]

because the fact pattern is different

WA state , unlike many states, does not have laws that address the car situation.

/QUOTE]

Ahem: RCW 9.41.050 2(a)

ahem, you are wrong

like i said, as long as the gun was in the car, and not in plain view, and the car was locked IT IS NOT A VIOLATION

in many other states, leaving the gun accessible to the kid IN THE CAR is a crime

NOT so in WA

9.41.050 does not address this situation. like i said.

as long as he locked the doors of the car when he stepped outside AND the gun was not in plain view from the outside NEITHER OF WHICH HAVE BEEN ALLEGED, it was not a violation of 9.41.050

ahem, yourself

 

[GuidoZ]

What are the odds that they locked their 2 kids into their car.

I'd say extremely close to zero. Of course, unless one of the parents admits it there's likely no proof.

If I leave anything I care about in the car, be it a kid, gun, computer, or my wife - I lock the car. I do this this out of habit, even if I forgot something in my office and I'll be back in less than 30 secs. There is no reason to provide anyone with the ease of access. So, IMO, I think it's very likely they could have locked the car, but as stated, this information isn't known in this thread.

--
Peace .~G

 

[PALO]

If I leave anything I care about in the car, be it a kid, gun, computer, or my wife - I lock the car. I do this this out of habit, even if I forgot something in my office and I'll be back in less than 30 secs. There is no reason to provide anyone with the ease of access. So, IMO, I think it's very likely they could have locked the car, but as stated, this information isn't known in this thread.

--
Peace .~G

exactly. people are trying to bootstrap 9.41.050 without any evidence it was violated

one could very well argue WA state has a "hole" in regards to this kind of conduct that should be fixed. that's a groovy normative argument

but when it comes to the instant case, unless there is evidence he left the gun in plain view from the outside (like sitting on the seat) and/or left the car unlocked- there is NO CRIMINAL VIOLATION

full stop

 

[DCKilla]

Well, the gun was in plain view enough for a 3 year old to find it.

Interesting point...

 

[gogodawgs]

Well, the gun was in plain view enough for a 3 year old to find it.

Interesting point...

Or it was placed out of plain view (from outside the vehicle) and into a known hiding place by a repetitive observer. Lesson to parents, your children do pay attention to your behaviors and actions, no matter how small. Guns, pills, smokes.....

 

[GuidoZ]

Or it was placed out of plain view (from outside the vehicle) and into a known hiding place by a repetitive observer. Lesson to parents, your children do pay attention to your behaviors and actions, no matter how small. Guns, pills, smokes.....

This was going to be my exact thought in response to NavyLCDR. Sticking it out of view, say in the glovebox, is very obvious to anyone who watches the process. Especially if that same individual has seen it happen for months. Though it's still no excuse for leaving it available to a 3 year old.

--
Peace .~G

 

[1245A Defender]

well,,,

false. as long as the car is locked, and the gun is not in plain sight, it is entirely legal.

you have no idea what you are talking about

I have many ideas about what I am talking about!!!!

I tire of mutiple threads for a subject,,, I am posting in the general discussion forum thread, you will find me there.

since mohamed wont come to the mountain,,, the mountain will come to mohamed...


[h=2]well,,,[/h]

No I dont think "the law is ""JUST"" what it is!!

050 says what it says,,, but a court will judge legeslative intent.

Try this case.
I use my CPL to put me and my loaded gun in my car,
I let my adult friend get in the car, without a CPL.
We go to the gas station,
I put my gun on the dashboard, I cover it with a towel.
Its a warm day and the windows are down,
I get out to pump the gas, I am now violating 050,, then remember the important words of 050, so
I lean in the open window and tell my friend to LOCK the doors,
now,,,
I am complying with 9.41.050

BTW A judge, A cop, and a prosecuter are all watching me...
can I be charged? can I be convicted?
Yes... Yes I can...


keep in mind,,, (4) says ,, nothing in this section permitts firearms to those that are not permitted to have them...​

 

[tombrewster421]

since mohamed wont come to the mountain,,, the mountain will come to mohamed...


[h=2]well,,,[/h]

No I dont think "the law is ""JUST"" what it is!!

050 says what it says,,, but a court will judge legeslative intent.

Try this case.
I use my CPL to put me and my loaded gun in my car,
I let my adult friend get in the car, without a CPL.
We go to the gas station,
I put my gun on the dashboard, I cover it with a towel.
Its a warm day and the windows are down,
I get out to pump the gas, I am now violating 050,, then remember the important words of 050, so
I lean in the open window and tell my friend to LOCK the doors,
now,,,
I am complying with 9.41.050

BTW A judge, A cop, and a prosecuter are all watching me...
can I be charged? can I be convicted?
Yes... Yes I can...


keep in mind,,, (4) says ,, nothing in this section permitts firearms to those that are not permitted to have them...​

Ain't that the truth.

 

[40S&W]

since mohamed wont come to the mountain,,, the mountain will come to mohamed...


[h=2]well,,,[/h]

No I dont think "the law is ""JUST"" what it is!!

050 says what it says,,, but a court will judge legeslative intent.

Try this case.
I use my CPL to put me and my loaded gun in my car,
I let my adult friend get in the car, without a CPL.
We go to the gas station,
I put my gun on the dashboard, I cover it with a towel.
Its a warm day and the windows are down,
I get out to pump the gas, I am now violating 050,, then remember the important words of 050, so
I lean in the open window and tell my friend to LOCK the doors,
now,,,
I am complying with 9.41.050

BTW A judge, A cop, and a prosecuter are all watching me...
can I be charged? can I be convicted?
Yes... Yes I can...


keep in mind,,, (4) says ,, nothing in this section permitts firearms to those that are not permitted to have them...​

If the windows are down, the vehicle is not secured.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Four children were in the car when the girl was killed by her brother. He used the personal weapon of Officer Derek Carlile.
http://today.seattletimes.com/2012/03/4-young-children-in-car-when-girl-fatally-shot-by-sibling/

And in other news, another kid brings a pistol (without ammo) to school and gets arrested. Not the kids first brush with the law.
http://today.seattletimes.com/2012/03/14-year-old-arrested-for-bringing-gun-to-school/

One of many recent editorial in the Times calling for 'reasonable' gun control. This time it's a Dr. pushing the Anti-gun King County Lock-it-up program, while chastising gun owners for not assuming 'responsibility.' Also calling for holding them criminally liable.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2017800244_guest21rivara.html

 

[40S&W]

By the same reasoning, if a person is locked inside with the gun, is it secured (locked)? Especially if that person is prohibited from possessing the firearm.

You bring up a good point. First of all if the windows are down or the vehicle is not locked then the gun is not secured. Or if the latter was the situation but the weapon was in a locked glovebox, would it then be considered secured? Either way you look at it, 'familiarity breeds contempt'. He got lazy and the girl paid the price. I will admit I am guilty of it too. I broke my neck in a racecar with a stuck throttle. 5 minutes before it happened I blew off the 'sorta stuck' throttle and headed out onto the track to practice. Familiarity breeds contempt. I got lucky and recovered fully, and will never do that again!

 

[OC for ME]

....sheriff’s investigators will not say which child is responsible for the death that’s been ruled a homicide.
http://today.seattletimes.com/2012/03/4-young-children-in-car-when-girl-fatally-shot-by-sibling/

Interesting development. So, mommy seems to be off the legal hook. Now, will daddy be let off the legal hook?

 

[Levi]

I have a 5yo daughter. When I bring things like ant chalk, kitchen knives, drain cleaner, or anything else that could be potentially harmful, I keep it locked up. I'll bring my daughter over to show it to her and explain that it's dangerous. I tell her not to touch it and to tell an adult as soon as possible. I'm very careful to follow all safety guidelines for every product. I've been doing this with her since she was two.

A gun is simply another dangerous item that's treated exactly the same way. My HD is kept in a way that can be quickly accessed but secured from unauthorized little hands.

She gets it. She actively participates in helping keep the house safe. Over all, I find it to be a pleasant bonding experience with her.

As far as leaving a kid in the car, I find that an alien concept. I bring my kid with me everywhere. I'd never leave her in the car. How could I enjoy her humor and unique perspective on things when she sits in the car?

If my daughter had gotten killed because of my negligence with a firearm, would I get convicted? Should I get convicted? I don't know. I'll never find out.

 

[gogodawgs]

It is my understanding that both the Tacoma and the Everett (with the LEO) ND's were with Glock's.