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Pistol Purchasing Permit (clearing the air)

hotrod08

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Does anyone know the where I can get a copy of the law that dreamer spoke of
"under NC law, handgun sales between individuals may occur if the purchaser
is 18 or over and the seller lives in the same state.
But you still CAN'T buy a handgun from a dealer."
 

hotrod08

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I am 19 years old, I went to the sheriffs office (Moore county) last Wednesday (1-27-10)talked to the sheriff about getting a Purchasing permit.
He said that Issuing a permit to someone under 21 is legal He would just have to research and see under what conditions.
He told me to call back in a few days, I called back this morning and they told me to come on in and fill out the permit paper.
So If all goes well, I will have a PPP in the next two weeks.
:)
 

ocgso

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hotrod8812 wrote:
I am 19 years old, I went to the sheriffs office (Moore county) last Wednesday (1-27-10)talked to the sheriff about getting a Purchasing permit.
He said that Issuing a permit to someone under 21 is legal He would just have to research and see under what conditions.
He told me to call back in a few days, I called back this morning and they told me to come on in and fill out the permit paper.
So If all goes well, I will have a PPP in the next two weeks.
:)

Awesome!!! Just be safe and watch what you do and how you are perceived.....if he thinks you screwed up, you will be the last under 21 that he issues.....

Congrats, that is something few sherrifs would do.....
 

Dreamer

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Let me start off with a little civics lesson, and explain how th elaw works here in the USA.

Our legal system is based on "proscriptive law", meaning you start from a point where EVERYTHING is legal, and then laws are made that ONLY describe what is PROHIBITED. If something isn't specifically prohibited under law or statute--in our legal system in the USA--then it is, de facto, legal and lawful.

In other words, if something is legal, you won't find a law that says so. Laws are only there to tell you what you CAN'T do. The legal system starts from a point assuming that possessing and carrying ANY firearm is legal for ALL people. Then, laws and statutes are enacted that PROSCRIBE what you can NOT do--sell a gun to a felon, possess a handgun if you have a restraining order against you, own a machine gun if you don't meet specific qualifications, etc...

That is why there is no statute to point to that makes Open Carry legal in NC (and many other states).

OK, here is how the "under 21 pistol sale" thing works:

This is what the "Anti's" call the "Gun Show Loophole" but really what it is, is a legal situation that allows individuals to engage in private commerce without undue intervention or regulation by the Federal Government.

Under Federal law, you must be 21 to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer. There are no federal regulations that regulate private sales, other than you're not supposed to sell a handgun to someone who is a "prohibited person" like a felon, or a drug addict, or someone from another state, or someone with a restraining order on them. The Feds seem to view private sales as something that does not fall under Federal perview, unless it involved interstate commerce. Under Federal law, you must be 18 or older to POSSESS a handgun.

NC law is similar to Federal law with regards to handgun sale, purchase, and possession. Under NC Statutes, you must be 21 to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer. There are no State regulations that regulate private sales, other than you're not supposed to sell a handgun to someone who is a "prohibited person" lie a felon, or from another state, or a drug addict, or someone with a restraining order on them, and the requirement that ALL handgun transactions require a Handgun Purchase Permit. Under NC Statutes, you must be 18 or older to POSSESS a handgun, but there is no age specified for the issuance of HPP's.

So, here's how the logic works:

Since there are no age limits on PRIVATE transactions in NC, other than the "prohibited persons" regulations, and the requirement that a person must be 18 or older to possess a handgun (Fed and NC laws), it is a logical (and legal) extension that someone who is between 18 and 21 may only come into possession of a handgun through 2 methods: it is loaned to them by an over-21 adult who is a legal owner (in which case it is only in your temporary possession, and not actually your "property"), or you must BUY it in a private transaction (which are not limited by the 21-year-old age restriction that FFL dealer transactions are). The only thing holding you back from completing a private transaction of a handgun in NC if you are under 21, is obtaining an HPP.

Since there is no age stipulation under NC law for possession or non-FFL sales for handguns, it is legal--IF you can legally obtain a HPP.

Despite the fact that there is nothing in NC Statutes that regulate age limits on private transactions of firearms (other than the part where you must be 18 to possess), many Sheriffs state that you must be 21 for them to issue you a HPP. Sheriffs seem to be able to get away with this restriction because if you don't like it, you have no real recourse--the Sheriff is the "Prime Law Enforcement Official" of any local jurisdiction. And since you have to get your HPP from the Sheriff in the same county as your residence, you have no option or recourse if your Sheriff isn't following the letter of the law. And taking your Sheriff to court over an administrative violation of NC Statutes (or a Constitutional violation, under the NC State Constitution) is certainly NOT going to win you any "brownie points" with the Sheriff, OR the Court system...

Often, though, if it's a father-son transaction (such as an inheritance or a gift) many Sheriffs will issue the HPP, even if their "policy" is to only issue to people 21 and over. And if your family is known as being law-abiding folk, then your chances are even better.

That's how it goes, at least to my understanding.

But remember, IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer), and my advice is worth EXACTLY what you pay for it... ;)

I suggest you download a copy of the PDF that the NC Attorney General has on their website concerning NC Firearms Law.

http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

Study it, Learn it, Live it...
 

calynn

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hotrod8812 wrote:
I am 19 years old, I went to the sheriffs office (Moore county) last Wednesday (1-27-10)talked to the sheriff about getting a Purchasing permit.
He said that Issuing a permit to someone under 21 is legal He would just have to research and see under what conditions.
He told me to call back in a few days, I called back this morning and they told me to come on in and fill out the permit paper.
So If all goes well, I will have a PPP in the next two weeks.
:)

Let me know how this goes for you - I'm in the exact same situation and was planning on visiting the SO sometime at the end of this week.
 

ocgso

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Dreamer - I agree with your entire post. Well put.

The document you refer to irritates the snot out of me. He mentions "going armed to the terror of the people" as common law. This document is the only place I have ever seen this mentioned and it bothers me that despite the legal (not illegal hence by nature legal) matter of open carry in NC, why is this charge allowed to be brought against people, much less to STICK.

The idea of "common laws" that are not written down and don't have statute numbers bothers me because I feel like there may be others that I don't know about and could be breaking. This particular common law is the reason I CC when I walk my dog. Otherwise being on public roadways if someone were "terrified" I could possibly be charged.....

Why are states allowed to write any laws that trump federal laws?

What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is unclear?

Sorry, just had to rant........
 

hotrod08

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ocgso wrote:
hotrod8812 wrote:
I am 19 years old, I went to the sheriffs office (Moore county) last Wednesday (1-27-10)talked to the sheriff about getting a Purchasing permit.
He said that Issuing a permit to someone under 21 is legal He would just have to research and see under what conditions.
He told me to call back in a few days, I called back this morning and they told me to come on in and fill out the permit paper.
So If all goes well, I will have a PPP in the next two weeks.
:)

Awesome!!!  Just be safe and watch what you do and how you are perceived.....if he thinks you screwed up, you will be the last under 21 that he issues.....

Congrats, that is something few sherrifs would do.....


Yes Sir, I am rather EXCITED :D Knowing the sheriff And him knowing me, and my family (Having worked with some of them)
Helped.

I ALWAYS try to be safe, and I am planing on taking more safety classes in the near future.
Here is some info about me,
Carrying a gun is not something I take lightly, and I am very careful, how I act with it in my possession,(And always) and ever so careful to make sure I stay inside the law (Being I want to go in to law enforcement in the future.)
I don't carry to Intimidate or to scare or to make people look at me, In-fact I would rather carry concealed (And will when I get my permit.)
I'm Just a good hearted person, Who has been a victim in the past and I carry (Not the only reason) For My protection(And my family.)

I moved to Greensboro not to long ago, I wouldn't mind getting together with some of y'all at one of the meets or something.


@ Dreamer, Thank you.
See, I talked to a lawyer friend, And got a whole different understanding. :banghead:
I have a idea He must not know his butt from a hole in the ground.

So, Let me get this straight if it's not Prohibited,(by law)Its legal?

LOL I already down loaded the PDF Copy of the firearm laws, I downed loaded that before I bought my handgun. I wanted to know (Atleast the outline) Of the laws and do's and dont's before I started carrying.
 

jag06

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Hotrod, I end up in Greensboro almost every day running around after school, we should meet up sometime. Would like to meet up with someone who has done what I am trying to do, get a purchase permit under 21.
 

calynn

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Hotrod,

So do you live in Moore county? Where'd you go to high school? Let us know what Mr. Carter says and how the permit goes, I want to do the exact same thing that you are trying to do!

Clark
 

hotrod08

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calynn wrote:
Hotrod,

So do you live in Moore county? Where'd you go to high school? Let us know what Mr. Carter says and how the permit goes, I want to do the exact same thing that you are trying to do!

Clark

Yes I still Live in Moore County (Thats Why I had to see Carter for a permit) My grandpa has a farm there (Which here shortly I will be moving to Greensboro For good) But my Drivers license is still Moore county Because Thats where I get my mail and so I couldn't change My License til I get mail in Greensboro.

@Jag06 We will have to set a day soon and meet up.
Right now I am out of town working.
Thanks for the offer.
 

jag06

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hotrod8812 wrote:
calynn wrote:
Hotrod,

So do you live in Moore county? Where'd you go to high school? Let us know what Mr. Carter says and how the permit goes, I want to do the exact same thing that you are trying to do!

Clark

Yes I still Live in Moore County (Thats Why I had to see Carter for a permit) My grandpa has a farm there (Which here shortly I will be moving to Greensboro For good) But my Drivers license is still Moore county Because Thats where I get my mail and so I couldn't change My License til I get mail in Greensboro.

@Jag06 We will have to set a day soon and meet up.
Right now I am out of town working.
Thanks for the offer.


No problem, let me know when your back in town and we will set up a day to get together.
 
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