Questions On Being Disarmed While OCing

[Anthony_I_Am]

Well, regardless of the legalities if my only two options are getting shot with my own gun at point blank range or taking my chances with a jury, I'll take the jury any day.

 

[hopnpop]

Roger THAT.

heresyourdipstickjimmy> Good mention just to throw a kink in the chain of thought, introducing a kid into the process. Changes the whole gameplan. I don't think anyone would blindly shoot without ID-ing the target 1st. However, if you actually practice gun grab drills, it'd be a good idea to introduce no-shoot scenarios if you don't already...as if it were a child, for instance. Good mention, dipstick. (doesn't sound like a compliment with "dipstick" at the end, does it?)

 

[since9]

There is one and only one answer for the emboldened question. That act is considered the use of deadly force, and especially so in the LEO community (I believe it's Deadly Force Assault). Your responsibility at that point is to protect the weapon at all costs, attempt to create distance between you and your assailant at any cost BEFORE unholstering, then positively identify your target BEFORE taking any further action. Yes, you'd likely be justified in shooting, but would that make sense without positively identifying your target. Someone already posted it, but I'll reiterate it: Situational Awareness.

Excellent points, and yes, SA begins the moment you take your firearm out of your safe (or wherever, if ever, you might keep it in condition four). Definately before you leave home.

Of course, every threat of this nature and scenario where this occurs will be a little different, which is where training and good judgment become more important that your shooting skills.

At a minimum, bruises, broken bones, dislocated joints, and the like are all warranted for such use of deadly force by an assailant. Though those too require judgment (very rapid at that).

I hope I don't offend anyone with this, but firearms retention training is something that should be as well learned and as fully integrated into one's psyche as feces retention. If you don't know how to keep it, you should reconsider taking it.

Two decades ago, I squared off with my best friend (he's still my best friend) over this issue, and he let me attempt to remove his unloaded, but holstered dummy (rubber) firearm from his holster (he was in law enforcement). I never knew what hit me, and had a headache that lasted the rest of the afternoon (he was sorry, oh boo-hoo, too much trying to impress me, I think!)

That was Saturday. Come Monday, he showed me what he'd done, and taught me a couple of other simple, yet highly effective techniques which would help any OCer retain his or her firearm, a responsibility all of us bear when we venture outside with a weapn which, in the hands of the most inept could still be deadly (I'm not too worried about kitchen knives, can you tell?)

If a child attempted to unholster your firearm from behind you, you'd likely become reluctant to react properly in the future. It's a risk we all face when we carry and an important reason why holster choice for the location and method of carry (as well as the firearm of choice) that day are so vital.

So check with your local LE office and see how they would respond.

I'd go one further, and if you're in an OC-friendly state, simply tell your local LE office that you OC, and would like to learn retention techniques so as to minize the risk to yourself and others should anyone attempt to take your weapon.

No citizen should EVER be forced to wait to be shot or shot at prior to using lethal force in defense of themselves or others. Imminent threat is all that should be needed...ie pointing the gun at you or someone else or physically attempting to take a firearm from someone who is lawfully carrying. Both of those are clear examples of intent to do harm and are both deadly force assaults.

Agreed, but that's one for the lawbooks. Yes, definately, research the laws and if you find stupid laws on the books (more common than you might think, even among OC-friendly states), challenge them with letters to your state legislatures. As I've discovered over the years, most of these laws were well-intentioned, but simply born of ignorant, if not false assumptions (or worse, Brady propaganda rather than bona-fide FBI or other crime stats).

 

[McX]

dont forget too, while your rumbling with your assailant, a gun, loaded with lead and metal, makes a damn fine head smacker. use it as a club before you choose to shoot. bounce it off your assailant's cranium a few times, and see how bad he wants to take it from you after that, you can use the barrel to jab him in the eyes, or smack his teeth out.

 

[since9]

dont forget too, while your rumbling with your assailant, a gun, loaded with lead and metal, makes a damn fine head smacker. use it as a club before you choose to shoot. bounce it off your assailant's cranium a few times, and see how bad he wants to take it from you after that, you can use the barrel to jab him in the eyes, or smack his teeth out.

Well-indended, but your average assailant can do far worse to you if you're not trained to deal with direct contact.

I strongly encourage people who carry, either CC or OC, to obtain as much weapons retention training training as they can, albeit within reason. You don't want to drop three grand for a series of course then wind up with no money left for the gym....

And that's the flip side.

During the Thanksgiving Holidays, I scrapped with my brother (playfully) for about three seconds before I realized that he, as a guy who does a lot of lifting day in and day out, had once again far eclipsed me in terms of any sort of close-in strength or reaction time, even though I still outweighed him.

He'd definately have the upper hand, although he has none of the close in fighting skills I have. He's just that dang strong.

So, it's back to the gym, not because I fear him, but because I've become complacent. There's someone out there who is as strong as he is, and if I'm not ready to 1-2 him, I'm no good to draw and fire after a blind attack.

It's just that simple. Get and stay in shape, folks. Strength is half the equation, and leverage (I'd strongly recommend aikido) is the other half.