Retention on Open Carry Holsters

[ixtow]

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Agent19 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

There are no such thing as retention holsters for my PT1911AR. I carry Crossdraw and the adjustable tension keeps it snug. I even have trouble pulling it out myself, if I don't pull it perfectly straight..........

:?
It is just a 1911 w/rails.
Safarilands 6378/6377 ALS for other 1911's with rails will work.

I'm not a fan of retention holsters.

No, it's a full picatinney rail. Not the usual mini rails that most have.

I had a Silent Thunder made by Tucker Gun Leather. Sweet. It is the ONLY holster AT ALL made for it.

 

[Marco]

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:?,

I have this and it fits the holsters listed.

It doesn't appear to be much different than yours.

 

[ixtow]

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Agent19 wrote:

:?,

I have this and it fits the holsters listed.

It doesn't appear to be much different than yours.

Interesting. I looked for months and everyone who sold them told me it would never fit. "The Taurus' rail is too wide" they told me. Guess my money wasn't green.

I like what I got anyway.

 

[Marco]

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ixtow wrote:

I like what I got anyway.

That's all that matters in the long run.

 

[Dreamer]

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ixtow wrote:

Interesting. I looked for months and everyone who sold them told me it would never fit. "The Taurus' rail is too wide" they told me. Guess my money wasn't green.

Isn't the whole point of the Picatinny rail that it is STANDARDIZED, so that you can fit accessories from ANY number of manufacturers to it easily? I thought ALL Picatinny rails were EXACTLY the same width. That's the point--a standardized mount platform...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail

Technical specificationsIn order to provide a stable platform, the rail should not flex as the barrel heats and cools; this is the purpose of the spacing slots: they give the rail considerable room to expand and contract lengthwise without distorting its shape. The Picatinny locking slot width is 0.206in (5.23mm). The spacing of slot centers is 0.394in (10.01mm) and the slot depth is 0.118in (3.00mm). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail#cite_note-0The only differences between the Picatinny rail and the similar Weaver rail are the size of these slots and the fact that they are standardized. Weaver rails have a slot width of 0.180in (4.57mm), but are not necessarily consistent in the spacing of slot centers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail#cite_note-autogenerated1-1 Some accessories are designed to fit on both Weaver and Picatinny rails; but most Picatinny devices will not fit on Weaver rails
​

Sometimes I wonder WTF the people at gun stores are thinking when they say stupid stuff like the above-mentioned quotation...

 

[ixtow]

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Dreamer wrote:

ixtow wrote:

Interesting. I looked for months and everyone who sold them told me it would never fit. "The Taurus' rail is too wide" they told me. Guess my money wasn't green.

Isn't the whole point of the Picatinny rail that it is STANDARDIZED, so that you can fit accessories from ANY number of manufacturers to it easily? I thought ALL Picatinny rails were EXACTLY the same width. That's the point--a standardized mount platform...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail

Technical specificationsIn order to provide a stable platform, the rail should not flex as the barrel heats and cools; this is the purpose of the spacing slots: they give the rail considerable room to expand and contract lengthwise without distorting its shape. The Picatinny locking slot width is 0.206in (5.23mm). The spacing of slot centers is 0.394in (10.01mm) and the slot depth is 0.118in (3.00mm). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail#cite_note-0The only differences between the Picatinny rail and the similar Weaver rail are the size of these slots and the fact that they are standardized. Weaver rails have a slot width of 0.180in (4.57mm), but are not necessarily consistent in the spacing of slot centers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picatinny_rail#cite_note-autogenerated1-1 Some accessories are designed to fit on both Weaver and Picatinny rails; but most Picatinny devices will not fit on Weaver rails

Sometimes I wonder WTF the people at gun stores are thinking when they say stupid stuff like the above-mentioned quotation...

There are a lot of 'rails' that aren't picatinney. And plenty of holsters made for those tiny rails. I tried my PT1911Ar in several, and nope, it didn't fit. Which is why I just started calling and doing interwebz research. Tucker Gun Leather were the ONLY ones who said they made a holster that would fit. Everyone else said no. I'm not saying they were accurate. I'm saying they were dumbasses and didn't get my money.

 

[Alexcabbie]

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After reading this exchange, I have determined that I will NEVER buy a pistol or revolver with one of those damned rails. Not only do they screw up holster fit, but now evidently there are at least TWO styles and some stuff for one may not fit the other?

Please tell me that nobody makes a "compact" pistol with a rail. "Compacts" are designed to be just that. Hang a bunch of geegaws on them and they are compact no longer. I bet somebody's done it, though.

 

[ixtow]

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Alexcabbie wrote:

After reading this exchange, I have determined that I will NEVER buy a pistol or revolver with one of those damned rails. Not only do they screw up holster fit, but now evidently there are at least TWO styles and some stuff for one may not fit the other?

Please tell me that nobody makes a "compact" pistol with a rail. "Compacts" are designed to be just that. Hang a bunch of geegaws on them and they are compact no longer. I bet somebody's done it, though.

This is why I chose a rail that was at least standard, instead of some crazy made-up crap that seems to be more widespread than the standardized rail........

I don't dangle anything from it, but I CAN.

 

[since9]

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I'll add that unless your SA includes 100% maintaining a six-foot perimeter, there are plenty of folks out there who can draw your unretarined weapon and fire it faster than you can react - if you're even aware. Even "uber-awareness" has its limits, as pickpockets have demonstrated for time immemorial.

 

[ixtow]

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since9 wrote:

I'll add that unless your SA includes 100% maintaining a six-foot perimeter, there are plenty of folks out there who can draw your unretarined weapon and fire it faster than you can react - if you're even aware. Even "uber-awareness" has its limits, as pickpockets have demonstrated for time immemorial.

If you're going to cite soemthing as outlandish as the ol "They'll grab your gun from you!!! OMGz!!!!!!!1!!!!!11!!!1!!!!eleventyone!!!!!" argument, you'll have to cite an instance of it.

Sure, that's why we like retention... But still, no instance of a snatcher getting the job done, anywhere.... And only 2 I know of who tried, and got manhandled for it.

 

[shad0wfax]

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GunsKillPeople wrote:

I know there are some varying opinions on that out there. I OC with my firearm in the front (cross-draw type holster from El Paso Leather) and it has no retention on it. Aside from getting a snug fit and using manual retention (elbow on the firearm) that's all she wrote. For me, I am uber-vigilant of my surroundings...not sure that is an issue tied to retention on the holster, but just throwing it in there.

I know a few (or many) may find that irresponsible, but was wondering if it is more of a preference thing, or really is an issue of irresponsibility? Lots of you carry openly with no retention?

Just curious. Look forward to the feedback.

I don't see anything wrong with carrying in any style of holster that will keep your firearm from flopping around or falling out. If a leather pancake style holster is giving you enough friction to keep your handgun from falling out, then it's fine to carry it that way.

Saying that a Serpa is better than your open-top El Paso Leather simply by virtue of a plastic retaining catch is a bit silly. I do OC with a Serpa that has retention, but I'm not foolish enough to rely solely on that to keep my gun in my hands and out of the hands of an assailant.

I have also open-carried a revolver in an open top non-retention IWB rig.

I feel comfortable and responsible carrying either firearm openly.

 

[deepdiver]

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I generally prefer a holster with some retention for OC and generally OC in SERPA but I have been known to do a non-retention VA Tuck in warm weather.

 

[Nikki_Black]

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Most of my holsters have a thumb break on them. My drop leg, and shoulder rigs both have one and so does my custom crossdraw holster. The only exception to this is the factory belt holster for my XD45, and it's just a molded plastic that has a nice snug fit. Not snug enough though. Haha. I've had problems with it falling out of the holster in the bathroom.

 

[Alexcabbie]

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IMO when all is said and done a thumb-break is all you need. I hate these new plastic and carbon fiber composite holsters. I like nice, soft pliable leather that doesn't scratch up the weapon or dig into one's body. These new-fangled wonder holsters are hard and clunky. I tried one on recently and it was like wearing a shoebox on my belt. I guess if you are a Vegan, alternatives to leather are desirable; but in that case "Uncle Mike" type nylon rigs are available--and, IMO, preferable to a piece of hard plastic.

 

[Nikki_Black]

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Alexcabbie wrote:

IMO when all is said and done a thumb-break is all you need. I hate these new plastic and carbon fiber composite holsters. I like nice, soft pliable leather that doesn't scratch up the weapon or dig into one's body.  These new-fangled wonder holsters are hard and clunky.  I tried one on recently and it was like wearing a shoebox on my belt.  I guess if you are a Vegan, alternatives to leather are desirable; but in that case "Uncle Mike" type nylon rigs are available--and, IMO, preferable to a piece of hard plastic. 

+1

 

[ixtow]

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Alexcabbie wrote:

IMO when all is said and done a thumb-break is all you need. I hate these new plastic and carbon fiber composite holsters. I like nice, soft pliable leather that doesn't scratch up the weapon or dig into one's body. These new-fangled wonder holsters are hard and clunky. I tried one on recently and it was like wearing a shoebox on my belt. I guess if you are a Vegan, alternatives to leather are desirable; but in that case "Uncle Mike" type nylon rigs are available--and, IMO, preferable to a piece of hard plastic.

You're just a grumpy old man! ;-)

I just bought a Serpa to compliment my Silent Thunder as an 'I don't trust these people' holster.

I find the Weapon far more clunky than it's container. What do you carry?

 

[cmdr_iceman71]

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Alexcabbie wrote:

IMO when all is said and done a thumb-break is all you need. I hate these new plastic and carbon fiber composite holsters. I like nice, soft pliable leather that doesn't scratch up the weapon or dig into one's body. These new-fangled wonder holsters are hard and clunky. I tried one on recently and it was like wearing a shoebox on my belt. I guess if you are a Vegan, alternatives to leather are desirable; but in that case "Uncle Mike" type nylon rigs are available--and, IMO, preferable to a piece of hard plastic.

I couldn’t agree with you more Alexcabbie. When I first received my CPL I thought the manufacturers plastic holster would be suitable OMG was I ever wrong that thing didn’t yield at ALLand thus whenever I sat down it made no effort to conform to the my body I was always painfully aware of it‘s presence. After two weeks I couldn’t take it anymore and I purchased a Galco OTW leather holster and I couldn’t be happier. And yes IMHO the leather is aesthetically more pleasing than those carbon fiber holsters, they only look right when they are on someone all dressed up like a S.W.A.T. member. :lol:

 

[richarcm]

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ixtow wrote:

Agent19 wrote:

ixtow wrote:

There are no such thing as retention holsters for my PT1911AR. I carry Crossdraw and the adjustable tension keeps it snug. I even have trouble pulling it out myself, if I don't pull it perfectly straight..........

:?
It is just a 1911 w/rails.
Safarilands 6378/6377 ALS for other 1911's with rails will work.

I'm not a fan of retention holsters.

No, it's a full picatinney rail. Not the usual mini rails that most have.

I had a Silent Thunder made by Tucker Gun Leather. Sweet. It is the ONLY holster AT ALL made for it.

I had the same exact gun and it does not fit into holsters made for 1911s w/ rails. Tried that. I had to buy a holster made for an XD in order to get it to fit. It was a decent fit but the strap was a bit loose....

 

[richarcm]

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Nikki_Black wrote:

Most of my holsters have a thumb break on them. My drop leg, and shoulder rigs both have one and so does my custom crossdraw holster. The only exception to this is the factory belt holster for my XD45, and it's just a molded plastic that has a nice snug fit. Not snug enough though. Haha. I've had problems with it falling out of the holster in the bathroom.

You know that you can crank down on that and get it tighter dont you? When I had my XD9 I used the factory holster at first, tightened it down and it was almost impossible to remove. It wasn't going ANYWHERE.

 

[MamaLiberty]

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richarcm wrote:

You know that you can crank down on that and get it tighter dont you? When I had my XD9 I used the factory holster at first, tightened it down and it was almost impossible to remove. It wasn't going ANYWHERE.

That would be really handy if you had to draw suddenly... :what: