Rochester Hills/Auburn Hills Gathering

[jbusa]

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How's a LEO to know that if your CC if your weapon is concealed. It states "[font="Arial, Helvetica"]an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show bothof the following to a police officer"
The way I take it is that if you are licensed to CC and a LEO asks you for ID, you need to provide ID and your CPL.

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[Taurus850CIA]

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SIDE ARM wrote:

How's a LEO to know that if your CC if your weapon is concealed. It states "[font="Arial, Helvetica"]an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show bothof the following to a police officer"
The way I take it is that if you are licensed to CC and a LEO asks you for ID, you need to provide ID and your CPL.

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28.517 Issuance of certificate; carrying certificate and driver license or Michigan personal identification card; disclosure to peace officer; forfeiture upon notice of revocation; violation; penalties.Sec. 7.
(1) The commission or its agent shall issue a certificate to a qualified retired law enforcement officer who has complied with the active duty firearms standard and is eligible to carry a concealed firearm under 18 USC 926C and this act.
(2) A certificate holder shall carry the certificate and a valid driver license or Michigan personal identification card on his or her person at all times while in possession of a concealed firearm and shall produce the documents upon demand by a peace officer.
(3) A certificate holder who is carrying a concealed firearm and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a concealed firearm on his or her person or is transporting a firearm in his or her vehicle.
(4) Upon notice of revocation, a certificate holder is required to forfeit his or her certificate to the commission by returning the certificate in person to the commission or returning the certificate by certified mail.
(5) A violation of this section subjects the certificate holder to the penalties provided in section 5f of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.425f, including forfeiture of the firearm.


http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ifkfztve1abkdx45zfys3k45))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-28-517&query=on&highlight=firearms%20AND%20disclose

 

[jbusa]

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Yep! I understand # 3. IF you are CC then YOU have to disclose your CPL and ID to the LEO. He's does not have to ask for it first. But again the statement on the MSP site states that "[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show bothof the following to a police officer:"

So does MSP need to change the wording of their site to state, ([/font][font="Arial, Helvetica"]Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol AND IS CARRING A CONCEALED PISTOL shall show bothof the following to a police officer:}?[/font]

 

[ghostrider]

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SIDE ARM wrote:

Yep! I understand # 3. IF you are CC then YOU have to disclose your CPL and ID to the LEO. He's does not have to ask for it first. But again the statement on the MSP site states that "[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show bothof the following to a police officer:"

So does MSP need to change the wording of their site to state, ([/font][font="Arial, Helvetica"]Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol AND IS CARRING A CONCEALED PISTOL shall show bothof the following to a police officer:}?[/font]

A person carrying a concealed handgun under a CPL is not required to submit his CPL and ID to the LEO if the officer does not "ask for it first". What it says is that the CPL holder

...shall carry the certificate and a valid driver license or Michigan personal identification card on his or her person at all times while in possession of a concealed firearm and shall produce the documents upon demand by a peace officer.

That's a far cry from, "He's does not have to ask for it first.

The MSP quote is misleading. That's why it's important to look up the law itself.

 

[DanM]

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SIDE ARM wrote:

the MSP site states that "[font="Arial, Helvetica"]Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show bothof the following to a police officer:"

So does MSP need to change the wording of their site[/font]

The third bullet point under that particular statement on the MSP website states:

"Failure to show CCW license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine."

So, in context with the bullet points, the MSP statement implicitlyis about CPL holders "carrying a concealed pistol".I believe their wording could be improved, but it is not asonerous asyour incomplete quote would lead a person tobelieve. I suggest in the future, when quoting something, include ALL other clauses and elements that go with it so that readers get the whole picture.

 

[jbusa]

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Ghostrider:


My bad, I merged #2 and #3 together. But you are right, the MSP site is misleading.

 

[jbusa]

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DANm:

SIDE ARM wrote:

The reason i asked if anyone involved has a CPL is that I ran across this at the MSP site. It's a little confusing though. Does it pertain to only if you are CC or just have a CPL?

SA

1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show bothof the following to a police officer:[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]His or her license to carry a concealed pistol[/font]
  [font="Arial, Helvetica"]His or her driver license or personal identification card[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Failure to show CCW license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.[/font]

I DID include it all in my original post. And bullet #3 states the punishment for FAILURE to show WHEN CC.

Item # 3 from the MSP site does not say while CC either does the Heading of the section. It simply states IF YOU HAVE A CCW (witch should now a days be CPL)!

From the MSP site:

Printer Friendly Text Version Email Page Text Size [font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][size="+1"]Proper Conduct During Encounters with Police[/size][/font] [font="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][size="-1"] [font="Arial, Helvetica"][size="+0"]Responsibilities of Individuals With a CCW License:[/size][/font]

1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately discloseto the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle.[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Failure to disclose this information to a police officer carries the following penalties:[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]First offense = State Civil Infraction - $500 fine and 6-month CCW license suspension.[/font] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Second offense = State Civil Infraction - $1000 fine and CCW license revocation.[/font]

1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall have the license in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Failure to possess CCW license when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and a $100.00 fine.[/font]

1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show bothof the following to a police officer:[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]His or her license to carry a concealed pistol[/font] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]His or her driver license or personal identification card[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Failure to show CCW license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.[/font]

1. [font="Arial, Helvetica"]A pistol carried in violation of numbers 1, 2, or 3 is subject to immediate seizure by a police officer.[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]If a weapon is seized for failure to possess a CCW license while carrying a concealed pistol:[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Individual has 45 days in which to display their license to carry a concealed pistol to the law enforcement agency that seized the pistol and the pistol shall be returned.[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]If the individual does not display their license to carry a concealed pistol within 45 days the pistol is subject to forfeiture.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]To Ensure Safety During Police Encounters[/font] [/font] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]If you are stopped by a law enforcement officer you should:[/font]

• [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Keep your hands where an officer can see them.[/font] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Cooperate fully with the police officer.[/font] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]If you have a gun with you, tell the police officer as soon as possible.[/font] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]Do not make any quick movements, especially toward the weapon.[/font] [font="Arial, Helvetica"]If in a vehicle at night, turn on your vehicle's dome light.[/font]

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]In certain circumstances, a law enforcement officer may take temporary possession of the weapon during interaction with the individual to ensure the safety of the officer and others. The police officer will return the pistol at the end of the stop unless the individual is being charged with a violation of the act or any other law that allows for the weapon to be seized.[/font] [/size][/font]

 

[Michigander]

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I decided to bump this thread, after seeing Makota's post about an email from the OCSD.

As I said in the FOIA, we're going to make their response or lack there of public, and they haven't responded yet. Given the very positive phone call with Sheriff Bouchard, and what Makota said, I have every reason to believe they will respond properly when everything is in order, but in keeping with what the FOIA said, it should be kept clear they haven't officially responded yet.

Another reason for bumping this thread is so that newer members and lurkers can see what happened. The Boston Market fiasco seems to have been massively over shadowed by what happened in Kalamazoo and Detroit.