SAF, NRA SUE WASHINGTON STATE FOR DISCRIMINATING AGAINST ALIEN RESIDENTS!

[tai4de2]

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Jared wrote:

....So your own wife would not have had the fundamental human right to protect herself for those 3 years she was a Resident Alien (CR-1/IR-1).

Indeed, we waited to buy guns until she became a citizen.

Some of the logic I'm seeing on this thread has almost convinced me that my position is wrong. I'll keep reading with an open mind.

 

[KBCraig]

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New Patriot wrote:

I have to agree, my example, I came to the States in the 90's, legally, was then fortunate enough to obtain a lottery visa ......enabling me to become a "Permanent Resident Alien".

I'm an avid shooter and live in Maine, a state that does not hinder the use of Firearms and where the use of guns are essentially a part of the way of life up here. This is why I live here as hunting and shooting were a childhood norm for me back in the old country growing up. So let me state shooting rights are not necessarily exclusive to the US.

Welcome to America, and welcome to OCDO!

I will take a wild guess, and narrow down your "old country" to three choices: Switzerland, Australia, or New Zealand. Or possibly South Africa, depending on how long ago you emigrated. Kenya is another possibility. (And just to ward off the surprise possibility: France or Germany, where, despite harsh restrictions by US standards, hunting and shooting are still a way of life for some people.)

Am I close?

We'll be neighbors in a couple of years, when I move to New Hampshire. It's good to have you on the forum.

 

[KBCraig]

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tai4de2 wrote:

Indeed, we waited to buy guns until she became a citizen.

Some of the logic I'm seeing on this thread has almost convinced me that my position is wrong. I'll keep reading with an open mind.

I believe the point that will sway you, is understanding that the right to be armed in defense of one's self, is a fundamental human right. The fact that governments deny the exercise of that right, doesn't change it. After all, the fact that some governments engage in summary execution doesn't change the fact that every living person has a fundamental human right to their own life. (We could tick off a long list of fundamental human rights that are denied by governments throughout the world, including our own.)

Such rights are a result of being born, not where one was born.

 

[KS_to_CA]

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New Patriot wrote:

I have to agree, my example, I came to the States in the 90's, legally, was then fortunate enough to obtain a lottery visa ......enabling me to become a "Permanent Resident Alien".

MY TAKE.... LEGAL RESIDENTS SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO LEGALLY OWN AND USE FIREARMS AND BE AFFORDED THE SAME RIGHTS AS OTHER LAW ABIDING CITIZENS The exception being voting rights. Voting rights should only be afforded to Bona Fide Citizens who have unequivocally taken the OATH OF ALLEGIANCE. "You want a voice you have to be a part of the family"

I am a "Permanent Resident Alien" as well. More commonly know as green card holders. The same status as the parents and grandparents of A LOT of 1st and 2nd generation American Citizens.

I came to this country legally, is working legally, paying my tax, supporting social security services, I am not on medicare or welfare, I have my own company. During the process of getting a green card, I have to present myselt to the INS every 15 months for a fingerprint - a process that takes 5 minutes after a two hour drive (one way).

My son is a first generation American Citizen. I am able to protect my son because I am able to own a firearm.

In my case, the law tells me I have to wait from 5-7 years to become a citizen. It is not a limitation I asked for. It is simply the the procedure and I respect that. The only thing I cannot do right now is to vote.

I am an immigrant and I am am against illegal aliens MORE THAN ANYONE BORN IN THE US. The reason, they make the lives of legal immigrants here more difficult, they destroy the reputation of legal immigrants and we end up being lumped into the same category as them.

Illegal aliens should not be able to carry firearms. If a trespasser (which is what they are) comes to your house, that is an offense. So why should they have rights to own a firearm.

Legal residents however, did not become one without following each and every item, letter, instructions, requirements and qualifications that the INS/DHS, the IRS, the SSN, the BATF, and every other agency out there, can think of.

Just my 0.02

 

[KS_to_CA]

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OK here's the question: Looking at the logo at the top of the website, is that something we can do in California?

Shirt tucked in, gun holstered using IWB holster where you can see part of the gun?

If it would help, mine is a Glock 27 that I normally strap using Blackhawk Serpa.

Thanks.

 

[Sea_Chicken]

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I miss read that I retract my statement. I do respect combat vets my family is full of them and i am in the military myself, but i do think it is bullshit that some join the military and after twenty years never get their citizenship it's pretty close to a free ride.

 

[Mike]

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Sea_Chicken wrote:

I miss read that I retract my statement. I do respect combat vets my family is full of them and i am in the military myself, but i do think it is bull@#$% that some join the military and after twenty years never get their citizenship it's pretty close to a free ride.

Some resident aliens though are in a tough spot as there home countries will revoke their citizenship if they add US citizenship. In any event, I dpon't see a free ride - the Congress established a system for aliens to live here permamently without any expectation for them to become US citizens - in fact, if they want to do that, it's a huge pain in the butt and a lot of money - all for what, so they can vote or run for office?

The key issue here is that resident aliens are due constitutional rights generally just like US citizens.

 

[ecgoin]

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Anyone here legally is and should be afforded our "inalienable rights" as set out inthis country'sconstitution. I believe they are a great asset to our country as well. Just fresh views andfamily/contacts still in their home country are assets enough. They have more to offer than just those things as well.

Legal aliens need the right to Keep And Bear Arms! Welcome Legals! glad to have you here.

 

[mpolo79]

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In my case, the law tells me I have to wait from 5-7 years to become a citizen. It is not a limitation I asked for. It is simply the the procedure and I respect that. The only thing I cannot do right now is to vote.

I am an immigrant and I am am against illegal aliens MORE THAN ANYONE BORN IN THE US. The reason, they make the lives of legal immigrants here more difficult, they destroy the reputation of legal immigrants and we end up being lumped into the same category as them.

Illegal aliens should not be able to carry firearms. If a trespasser (which is what they are) comes to your house, that is an offense. So why should they have rights to own a firearm.

The law tells you to wait 5-7 years but common sense and a just immigration system should make you wait about 15 minutes until your paperwork checked out.

Who benefits from the thousands of dollars you pay in fines and the years you have to wait being processed?

The bureaucrats, thats who. They are the only ones who benefit.

Congratulations! They bent you over a log and had their way with you...for years. You gave them a way to justify their NON-JOBS that contribute nothing to our economy and only act as a drain on our tax dollars.

The undocumented workers, on the other hand, didn't have time to entertain and enrich these fat slobs called bureaucrats. These workers had to put food into their kid's stomachs, and roofs over their kids' heads. Their crime was that when they looked into their childrens' eyes, they yearned to see hope and not despair. Their horrific crime is that they loved their children.

Who contributes more to the American economy? The fat slob bureaucrat who makes you stand in line for years and pockets your hard earned cash so that at the very end he can stamp a piece of paper? Or the undocumented immigrant who builds the roads, the schools, harvests the food, builds the office buildings, etc., etc., etc.

Damn, these people are so productive that on any given weekend, when the rest of us are taking a break, these immigrants are standing on the corner looking for day laborer work...and thereby keeping our economy moving forward.

 

[KS_to_CA]

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"Damn, these people are so productive that on any given weekend, when the rest of us are taking a break, these immigrants are standing on the corner looking for day laborer work...and thereby keeping our economy moving forward."

These are also the people that fakes their address in the US, line up at the welfare windows monthly demanding "their" checks, cross the border down south after encasing the checks (which is your tax and mine), live like kings there and gets to brag about it, brings back drugs into the country, and repeats the cycle again.

Not only that, I have seen, believe it or not, where the grand mother, the mother, and the daughters are on welfare.

I dont have a problem with people needing welfare WHILE trying to get on their feet. But if 2-3 generations make this their profession, that is sickening.

I was a witness to a welfare worker (American citizen, born in the US) whose request for a breathing machine for an asthmatic child was denied, only to be told to approve the same machine for a welfare person who ws found to be living outside the US and SELLING the DANG machine!!!

Moving the economy? Here's the news, my friend. They dont pay taxes, they eat your tax and mine through healthcare, free education, and free legal service when arrested.

And to top it all, they dont even exert any effort to learn the language. Try to go to France, Russia, China, or even in UK - they will be told to learn the language. But not in the US.

Why do we accomodate them so much?

Helping moving the economy? Only if you are LEGAL. BTW, my mother works at the welfare service. These are first hand information I got from welfare employees.

 

[BORG]

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Does anyone know who long it would take for the courts to sort this out? I'm curious since my Alien Firearms Permit expires in Oct'09.

Also, I would like to thank all those who have stuck their necks out for the rest of us. Your courage and patriotismmust be commended.


- BORG

 

[olypendrew]

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BORG wrote:

Does anyone know who long it would take for the courts to sort this out? I'm curious since my Alien Firearms Permit expires in Oct'09.

Also, I would like to thank all those who have stuck their necks out for the rest of us. Your courage and patriotismmust be commended.


- BORG

The defendants should have to answer the complaint in pretty short order, really any day now. The complaint requests a stay, meaning thejudge could decide that the plaintiffs are likely to prevail and the substantial harm will occur if the law is enforced, and order that the law not be enforced while the lawsuit proceeds. I assume the SAF website will post all the pleadings as they are filed.

 

[TheEggman]

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BORG wrote:

Does anyone know who long it would take for the courts to sort this out? I'm curious since my Alien Firearms Permit expires in Oct'09.

Also, I would like to thank all those who have stuck their necks out for the rest of us. Your courage and patriotismmust be commended.


- BORG

Just a quick Thank You for being one of those who 'does it right.' (legally)

I have a friend from Columbia who got her citizenship last month. She (like all who follow the law) was required to learn the language and know the history. (Something many natural born citizens can't claim) and waited her 7 years without being able to go back home, even for her brother's funeral. (They would make no exception.)

She's not very happy about the prospect of others getting a 'free ride' or a 'quick path' to the citizenship she worked for.


Best, and good luck from VA where any legal permanent resident, citizen or not, may legally purchase and carry!

Egg

 

[Tawnos]

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I keep seeing "learn the language" - I'd, again, like to point out that the US doesn't have an official language. Just because you're biased into thinking that it's English based on your own notions doesn't make it so until such law is placed on the books.

 

[TheEggman]

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Tawnos wrote:

I keep seeing "learn the language" - I'd, again, like to point out that the US doesn't have an official language. Just because you're biased into thinking that it's English based on your own notions doesn't make it so until such law is placed on the books.

Humble apologies for slacking in my own clarity.

Allow me to restate for those who may be conceptually impaired.

I have a friend from Columbia who got her citizenship last month. She (like all who follow the law) was required to learn English and know United States history. (Something many natural born citizens can't claim) and waited her 7 years without being able to go back home, even for her brother's funeral. (They would make no exception.)

In addition ...

They were also required to learn about 'The Constitution' - but to clarify, I meant the United States Constitution.

As for the lack of an 'official' language I believe the fact that we have yet to adopt one is both a disgrace and an economic/social disadvantage.

But then again, I could be wrong.

 

[cynicist]

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Another aspect of the question, though not entirely the legal part, is the practicality of it.
As far as "immigrant crime" goes, it's statistically 5 times lower than US citizens, per capita. ( see http://ideas.repec.org/p/rut/rutres/200605.html )
However, a lot of those bad apples are able to get away specifically because they target immigrants, particularly illegal immigrants. Since the police run the INS check on VICTIMS of crimes, criminals know that illegal immigrants will most likely not report the crime, and it allows criminals to just keep operating. Since legal immigrants can't own guns either, they know there is little chance of dying in the process of robbery or what have. This is a perfect example of how gun control, though on a limited scale, is setting up law abiding citizens to be victims of crimes. And the criminals know that.
A lot of illegal immigrants have legal family members. Should it be known to this particular type of criminal that there is a higher likelihood that there is a gun waiting in that house for them, the crime rate as a whole will likely drop.

As far as illegals being lumped in the same category as criminals- that is not so either. It's as serious of an offense as not paying a parking ticket, it's not actually a criminal offense. I assume no one here wants to see gun rights stripped for something as insignificant as that.

 

[diesel556]

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I feel like it might be pointless to post to this thread; for some reason people are especially vehement concerning their beliefs when it comes to illegal immigrants. However, I think the "illegal's are bad, mmkay" mindset is adopted a little to readily by most.

Some (I don't know how many) illegal's do pay their taxes, and follow the law on a day to day basis. The sad part is that any refund owed to them by the IRS is usually withheld due to SSN verification requirements. Of course, the IRS has no problem accepting payment for taxes from those same SSN's. Some of these people have tens or hundred's of thousands of dollar's withheld from them over the course of their working career. Yet they keep paying taxes. Does that sound like something a criminal would do? Better yet, does that sound like a "free ride"?

To those who would be upset if the immigration processes were streamlined. Are you really saying that everyone in the future should have to put up with an unfair system just because you had to? Isn't that a little selfish on your part? Personally, if I suffer an injustice, I don't wish it on other's out of spite. I would prefer that the injustice never occurs again. That's what this board seems to be about, considering the efforts to change department policies and encouragement for education on the legalities of open carry.

This is one "helluva" first post to a new forum, but I feel strongly that people of any class, or race should not just be "lumped" together. I say shame on anyone who does so, without considering the importance of their statements. Some people are bad, some are good.

Not that it should matter, but I am a US citizen, and I am very familiar with the immigration system in this country.

 

[BORG]

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So we're almost into December already...

Does anyone have an update on the status of this lawstuit? Thank you kindly.

- BORG

 

[EOD]

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Anything new on this? Brief's filed, etc?

I shot off an email to SAF about a week and a half ago but no response.

Anybody heard anything?

 

[heresolong]

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diesel556 wrote:

Some (I don't know how many) illegal's do pay their taxes, and follow the law on a day to day basis. The sad part is that any refund owed to them by the IRS is usually withheld due to SSN verification requirements. Of course, the IRS has no problem accepting payment for taxes from those same SSN's. Some of these people have tens or hundred's of thousands of dollar's withheld from them over the course of their working career. Yet they keep paying taxes. Does that sound like something a criminal would do?

This is one "helluva" first post to a new forum, but I feel strongly that people of any class, or race should not just be "lumped" together. I say shame on anyone who does so, without considering the importance of their statements. Some people are bad, some are good.

They don't actually "keep paying taxes". The taxes are withheld. You have no choice in the matter. So this has nothing to do with the fact that they are criminals.

Definition: criminal - someone who has committed a crime

Coming into this country without obtaining the correct paperwork and checking in with the INS is against the law. Therefore they are criminals.

Finally, what does "race" have to do with it? No one has brought up race except you. We are talking about people who break the law every day that they are in this country just by being here. Doesn't matter what race they are.