T Vance
Regular Member
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Saline / Ann Arbor This Weekend
- Thread starter EM87
- Start date
Zukirider
Regular Member
imported post
I may or may not make it just found out that i have a funeral in the morning in dearborn, its at 10 and im just not sure how long its going to take so if i have the time i will be there otherwise like i have posted before a soldiers funeral is my number one priorty. however i will try to make it
I may or may not make it just found out that i have a funeral in the morning in dearborn, its at 10 and im just not sure how long its going to take so if i have the time i will be there otherwise like i have posted before a soldiers funeral is my number one priorty. however i will try to make it
TylerJ87
Regular Member
imported post
I think I would like to attend although I am not sure I am ready to OC in Ann Arbor yet. Since I still have to be around for a few more years to finish school I don't want to make any enemies with the campus police.
I think I would like to attend although I am not sure I am ready to OC in Ann Arbor yet. Since I still have to be around for a few more years to finish school I don't want to make any enemies with the campus police.
EM87
Regular Member
imported post
Zukirider wrote:
Completely understandable.
TylerJ87 wrote:
Show up anyway! OC or not, we'd love to have you.
Zukirider wrote:
Completely understandable.
TylerJ87 wrote:
Show up anyway! OC or not, we'd love to have you.
EM87
Regular Member
imported post
Last bump for publicity.
Last bump for publicity.
TylerJ87
Regular Member
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I will be there ... still not sure if I am ready to OC though ...
I will be there ... still not sure if I am ready to OC though ...
EM87
Regular Member
imported post
For those last minute posters/readers who didn't see this before, I'll be the guy in the black and blue striped hoodie and the black glasses OCing a GLOCK. I shouldn't be hard to find.
For those last minute posters/readers who didn't see this before, I'll be the guy in the black and blue striped hoodie and the black glasses OCing a GLOCK. I shouldn't be hard to find.
a2fireball
Regular Member
imported post
So how was the turnout?
:question:
So how was the turnout?
:question:
EM87
Regular Member
imported post
We had four! It was a good time.
We had four! It was a good time.
mikestilly
Regular Member
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EM87 wrote:
did the infamous Hombre show up?
EM87 wrote:
\
did the infamous Hombre show up?
EM87
Regular Member
imported post
Nope.
Nope.
TylerJ87
Regular Member
imported post
I had a good time meeting some other OC guys. Even though I didn't OC it made me feel more comfortable about doing it in the future.
I had a good time meeting some other OC guys. Even though I didn't OC it made me feel more comfortable about doing it in the future.
imported post
mikestilly wrote:
Couldn't make it. I wanted to be there so people could see I am real AND that I am not opposed to OC. However, now that this PAT person keeps threatening me and wanting to know what agency I work for (probably to try to get me into some problems) I think I'll just keep to myself.
He's doing wonders for your relationship with law enforcement, fellas.
mikestilly wrote:
Couldn't make it. I wanted to be there so people could see I am real AND that I am not opposed to OC. However, now that this PAT person keeps threatening me and wanting to know what agency I work for (probably to try to get me into some problems) I think I'll just keep to myself.
He's doing wonders for your relationship with law enforcement, fellas.
B
Bikenut
Guest
imported post
Hombre1 wrote:
There is no reason for open carriers to have anything resembling a "relationship" with law enforcement............. fella.
Hombre1 wrote:
The point that always seems to be missed is...........
There is no reason for open carriers to have anything resembling a "relationship" with law enforcement............. fella.
B
Bikenut
Guest
imported post
Hombre1 wrote:
Now if that is "fantasy land" as you put it then there isn't a problem with folks engaging in legal activities... there is a problem with LE.
You see... in a world where LE understands their job a MWAG call on a legal open carrier would result in the officer educating the dolt who wasted LE's time and resources by placing the call on the legality of a MWAG.... instead of going "fishing" in the open carrier's pond hoping to at least catch a minnow.
Now... to be fair OC is a somewhat new to LE legal activity in urban areas and because a citizen with a gun is looked upon through eyes that see entirely too many crooks with guns LE tends to lump all citizens with guns into the "crook" grab bag until proven otherwise (guilty until proven innocent?).... and proceed accordingly. This is rapidly changing even over some LE's protestations. And it should because LE is charged with enforcing the law... not enforcing what they personally think about the manner in which someone is engaging in a lawful activity.
About that "eyes that see entirely too many crooks" part.... that is why I understand the tough job LE has. But tough or not... enforcing the law... and only enforcing the law... is the job.... not pushing personal attitudes.
I'll go out on a limb and express a personal opinion:
I believe the entire problem that LE, government agencies, gun control groups, have with open carry has nothing to do with the law but has everything to do with control. With concealed carry the "authorities" have control over who gets the privilege of carrying a gun... and only those who fit the standards set by the "authorities" will get that privilege... and those who mess up will lose that privilege... not to mention there is a data base of just who has that privilege. And the possibility of losing that privilege ensures co operation with LE adding a measure of control to the encounter.
But with open carry anyone can carry a gun without first "measuring up" or "being known" or "having control over with threat of losing the privilege".
Without some kind of "control" the 2nd Amendment right to "keep and bear arms" would result in anyone and everyone carrying a gun.... making everyone equal in their ability to resist "control"... and, by golly, how would those in authority control everybody then? Freedom, true freedom, is poison to those who desire control.
And aren't LEOs trained to "take control" of every situation? How does an officer "control" an open carrier who doesn't even have to show ID? Must be very frustrating.... and cause some resentment.
Most LEOs are very well trained in how to deal with bad guys... and most do that very very well. Perhaps what has been lacking is training in how to deal with the good guys? `
Hombre1 wrote:
That is the problem... you see Sir, as long as I am engaged in a legal activity, regardless of what that legal activity is, there should be no reason for any interaction with LE since... I am not doing anything illegal.
Now if that is "fantasy land" as you put it then there isn't a problem with folks engaging in legal activities... there is a problem with LE.
You see... in a world where LE understands their job a MWAG call on a legal open carrier would result in the officer educating the dolt who wasted LE's time and resources by placing the call on the legality of a MWAG.... instead of going "fishing" in the open carrier's pond hoping to at least catch a minnow.
Now... to be fair OC is a somewhat new to LE legal activity in urban areas and because a citizen with a gun is looked upon through eyes that see entirely too many crooks with guns LE tends to lump all citizens with guns into the "crook" grab bag until proven otherwise (guilty until proven innocent?).... and proceed accordingly. This is rapidly changing even over some LE's protestations. And it should because LE is charged with enforcing the law... not enforcing what they personally think about the manner in which someone is engaging in a lawful activity.
About that "eyes that see entirely too many crooks" part.... that is why I understand the tough job LE has. But tough or not... enforcing the law... and only enforcing the law... is the job.... not pushing personal attitudes.
I'll go out on a limb and express a personal opinion:
I believe the entire problem that LE, government agencies, gun control groups, have with open carry has nothing to do with the law but has everything to do with control. With concealed carry the "authorities" have control over who gets the privilege of carrying a gun... and only those who fit the standards set by the "authorities" will get that privilege... and those who mess up will lose that privilege... not to mention there is a data base of just who has that privilege. And the possibility of losing that privilege ensures co operation with LE adding a measure of control to the encounter.
But with open carry anyone can carry a gun without first "measuring up" or "being known" or "having control over with threat of losing the privilege".
Without some kind of "control" the 2nd Amendment right to "keep and bear arms" would result in anyone and everyone carrying a gun.... making everyone equal in their ability to resist "control"... and, by golly, how would those in authority control everybody then? Freedom, true freedom, is poison to those who desire control.
And aren't LEOs trained to "take control" of every situation? How does an officer "control" an open carrier who doesn't even have to show ID? Must be very frustrating.... and cause some resentment.
Most LEOs are very well trained in how to deal with bad guys... and most do that very very well. Perhaps what has been lacking is training in how to deal with the good guys? `
EM87
Regular Member
imported post
I appreciate the civil discussion, I really do, but could we please not discuss it in this thread?
I appreciate the civil discussion, I really do, but could we please not discuss it in this thread?
smallthunder
Regular Member
imported post
Wish I would have gotten this sooner. I would have joined you all since I live in A2. :banghead:
Wish I would have gotten this sooner. I would have joined you all since I live in A2. :banghead: