SB129 - Unlicensed open carry bill passes Oklahoma Senate, moves to House

[77zach]

This gets back to the fact that the presence of a gun is not sufficient to create a Terry stop. This would be like stopping everyone driving a car to just to make sure they have a license. Without RAS, the officer would have no right to stop you in the first place. If they stopped you for something else, they could then go, "oh, btw, do you have your safe gun handling card?"

Correct, it is settled case law, and this appears to be how it works in other long time licensed OC states such as Georgia and Indiana. However, with our open carry bill here in Florida, some law enforcement is testifying in committee that they will break the law if it passes and "draw down" on any OCers.

 

[Mirge]

Correct, it is settled case law, and this appears to be how it works in other long time licensed OC states such as Georgia and Indiana. However, with our open carry bill here in Florida, some law enforcement is testifying in committee that they will break the law if it passes and "draw down" on any OCers.

Law enforcement blatantly saying they are going to break the law? Must not care much about their careers.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Correct, it is settled case law, and this appears to be how it works in other long time licensed OC states such as Georgia and Indiana. However, with our open carry bill here in Florida, some law enforcement is testifying in committee that they will break the law if it passes and "draw down" on any OCers.

is that recorded in any committee meeting minutes?

 

[77zach]

is that recorded in any committee meeting minutes?

Yep,

March 24th at the bottom right.

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Committees/committeesdetail.aspx?CommitteeId=2594

 

[harmlesslyfatal]

My thoughts

My thoughts on the open carry bill are that I believe that training should be required so that convicted felons, who happen to maybe illegally own firearms, are not capable of taking said training and will then be charged for unlawfully carrying a firearm. Also, I agree with the ORA about the age requirement. It would open a lot of controversy for people under the age of 21 openly carrying firearms, even though they don't have the right to own a handgun. It wouldn't properly be registered in state and local records, so they would be unlawfully possessing, which is contradictory to the regulations set up by the current proposed bill. I think training should be mandatory, because if it wasn't, then anyone who met the minimum age requirement could legally OC.. which would include gang members, convicted felons, and such. I don't think that that would help with the crime rate, but would produce yet more crime.

 

[Mirge]

My thoughts on the open carry bill are that I believe that training should be required so that convicted felons, who happen to maybe illegally own firearms, are not capable of taking said training and will then be charged for unlawfully carrying a firearm. Also, I agree with the ORA about the age requirement. It would open a lot of controversy for people under the age of 21 openly carrying firearms, even though they don't have the right to own a handgun. It wouldn't properly be registered in state and local records, so they would be unlawfully possessing, which is contradictory to the regulations set up by the current proposed bill. I think training should be mandatory, because if it wasn't, then anyone who met the minimum age requirement could legally OC.. which would include gang members, convicted felons, and such. I don't think that that would help with the crime rate, but would produce yet more crime.

I seriously... SERIOUSLY...... hope you're kidding. Or are you related to Tibbs? :banghead:

 

[JBURGII]

This gets back to the fact that the presence of a gun is not sufficient to create a Terry stop. This would be like stopping everyone driving a car to just to make sure they have a license. Without RAS, the officer would have no right to stop you in the first place. If they stopped you for something else, they could then go, "oh, btw, do you have your safe gun handling card?"

That is what I thought, but was curious also if they would try to add wording to allow leo to check for compliance much like California lets officers violate 4th amendment with the e-check.

Maybe I am over worrying...

 

[Grapeshot]

My thoughts on the open carry bill are that I believe that training should be required so that convicted felons, who happen to maybe illegally own firearms, are not capable of taking said training and will then be charged for unlawfully carrying a firearm. Also, I agree with the ORA about the age requirement. It would open a lot of controversy for people under the age of 21 openly carrying firearms, even though they don't have the right to own a handgun. It wouldn't properly be registered in state and local records, so they would be unlawfully possessing, which is contradictory to the regulations set up by the current proposed bill. I think training should be mandatory, because if it wasn't, then anyone who met the minimum age requirement could legally OC.. which would include gang members, convicted felons, and such. I don't think that that would help with the crime rate, but would produce yet more crime.

Laws don't keep felons from breaking the law - get serious. Your logic is flawed.

Age requirement to OC? Take a look where it has been done w/o major problem for years. Are residents of OK less responsible than those of all of these states.
http://www.opencarry.org/age.html

Since when does introducing age into the factor say that "gang members, convicted felons and such" would be allowed to carry? Really, that is tripe. There are already laws making it illegal for felons to carry this won't change that.

Now let's suppose there is a dangerous "gang member out there that has not been convicted of a felony yet. Have you ever seen any such person OCing, even once? Gang bangers hide their weapons (illegally) until the moment they are used.

Long story short - OC has proven to be safe for 18 year olds over and over again. Oklahomans should demand/expect no less. It is the Right thing to do.

 

[Grapeshot]

I seriously... SERIOUSLY...... hope you're kidding. Or are you related to Tibbs? :banghead:

I think the better question might be, to which anti group the individual might belong.
The same verbiage and tactics are plainly evident. Felons will take advantage of the law, 18 yo are not responsible, more training is needed ad infinitum - straight out of the Brady playbook - everything but Dodge City BS.

Think that this individual has been sent here to distract and disrupt - suggest that this be the last remark in response to his/her stupidity and let yourselves get on with the business at hand.

 

[hrdware]

You know, I was going to follow Grapeshots request and not reply to this, but there is just so much wrong here I couldn't let it go.

My thoughts on the open carry bill are that I believe that training should be required so that convicted felons, who happen to maybe illegally own firearms, are not capable of taking said training and will then be charged for unlawfully carrying a firearm.

A convicted felon in possession of a firearm is already a crime. Seeing someone with a gun will not give LEO the ability to check for a training card. The convicted felon will illegally carry the illegal firearm in any case.

Also, I agree with the ORA about the age requirement. It would open a lot of controversy for people under the age of 21 openly carrying firearms, even though they don't have the right to own a handgun. It wouldn't properly be registered in state and local records, so they would be unlawfully possessing, which is contradictory to the regulations set up by the current proposed bill.

Along with the post Grapeshot made about age limits in other states, anyone over the age of 18 can legally own any firearm in the state of OK. You have to be 21 to purchase from a licensed dealer, but can buy from a private individual or receive a gift of a gun at 18. Oklahoma has no state (or local due to preemption) registration requirement. Registration would be a violation of the 5th amendment for those felons you are so worried about.

I think training should be mandatory, because if it wasn't, then anyone who met the minimum age requirement could legally OC.. which would include gang members, convicted felons, and such. I don't think that that would help with the crime rate, but would produce yet more crime.

So gang members and convicted felons automatically are better people when they turn 21? The Bad Guy will carry illegally anyone no matter what laws they are supposed to be following...it's part of being a bad guy.

I agree with Grapeshot, this person is either very ignorant of OK laws, or is a distraction/disruption to the cause. If they are ignorant, hopefully the above education will help, otherwise, the ignore list will help.

 

[haglered]

Oklahoma Constitution

It is amazing how the Federal constitution and our state constitution gurantees us the right to keep and bear arms but the government wants to regulate that right out of exsistance. It is more amazing that the voters tolerate this.

 

[hrdware]

It is amazing how the Federal constitution and our state constitution gurantees us the right to keep and bear arms but the government wants to regulate that right out of exsistance. It is more amazing that the voters tolerate this.

I would say that "voters" don't tolerate it, however "sheeple" do.

We need a sheep smiley face

 

[Mirge]

I would say that "voters" don't tolerate it, however "sheeple" do.

We need a sheep smiley face

:lol:

 

[Grapeshot]

We need a sheep smiley face

The sheep don't realize that they live to be someone's dinner.

 

[Kingfish]

The sheep don't realize that they live to be someone's dinner.

Until it is too late.

 

[hrdware]

Updated 4/4

There was a committee amendment filed to this today. It turns the bill back into Concealed Carry with an open option.

However I did send an email to Rep Steve Martin with a question. One thing the CWL specifically does not allow is the "intentional display of the pistol". If someone open carries, then to me that seems like an intentional display of the weapon.

As a shall notify state, it does specifically say you only have to notify LEO if you are being arrested, detained, or routine traffic stop.

Got a reply from Rep Martin. He said he read it as keeping your firearm in your pocket or holstered.

This bill is set to be heard in committee, Wednesday April 6, at 10:30 AM Room 432A. This is the 2nd item on the agenda. Well first other than Welcome and Introduction.

 

[jcizzle]

This bill is set to be heard in committee, Wednesday April 6, at 10:30 AM Room 432A. This is the 2nd item on the agenda. Well first other than Welcome and Introduction.

Is this something folks should attend to show support for the bill? If so, could someone direct where to go and how to get there?

 

[hrdware]

Is this something folks should attend to show support for the bill? If so, could someone direct where to go and how to get there?

Committee Meetings are open to the public and anyone can attend. Generally there is a sign up sheet if you wish to speak in favor of or against the measure. I don't know how or if they measure public support based upon attendance.

If you wish to attend the meeting will be at the state capital. From Edmond, take Broadway south to NE 23rd street. Exit and turn left. Go under Broadway Extension and then follow the signs to the capital building.

I imagine by 11:00 Wednesday morning, they will have made a committee decision on this and I will post it as soon as I hear something. I get instant alerts when things happen with bills I have signed up to track.

 

[russcook]

...

This bill is set to be heard in committee, Wednesday April 6, at 10:30 AM Room 432A. This is the 2nd item on the agenda. Well first other than Welcome and Introduction.

I plan to be there!

 

[JBURGII]

Given a free schedule, I would have loved to attend and even make a statement. I will be waiting for word with crossed fingers and a prayer.. or two.

Rev. Jim