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Scalia Dead - Supreme Court No longer has a Gun Friendly Majority

Citizen

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SNIP Our own founding fathers used King George's refusal to provide government as one of the indictments against him:

"He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

"He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within."


Fail on multiple levels.

1. George III dissolving colonial legislatures was not a no-government situation. It was a tyrannical government situation.

2. The dissolution of colonial legislatures means only that higher government dissolved a single lower government function.

A. It did not prevent the people from organizing the militia on their own--they certainly did that at Lexington and Concord.

B. One can hardly claim Geo. III's dissolution of colonial legislatures proves the need for government. All it proves is that the there was not a consensual government there for Geo III to dissolve, and that Geo III's government was not consensual. And, that Geo III himself--government--was acting out-of-bounds.*

C. You can bet your bottom dollar the colonial governors would have activated the militia and howled to high heaven for British regulars in the event of an invasion or internal convulsion. The quote doesn't say Geo III recalled or cancelled the colonial royal governors. Too obviously the quoted material is taking Geo III to task for dissolving colonial legislatures for political reasons.



*George III was an outlier. The British monarch was almost totally tied down by 1706-1710 with a religious settlement during Queen Anne's reign. That is to say, the religious settlement finished tying the monarch's hands. From then on, the monarch was a figurehead politically. Almost all political power rested with Parliament and the ministers. Roll back the clock to January 30, 1649 when Parliament executed Charles I. Parliament was supreme. Lots of factional infighting. Eventually Oliver Cromwell dies, and Parliament invites the exiled son, Charles II back to reign. Yep. England went from monarchy to republic to monarchy--and all without outside influence. Parliament invited Charles II back.

But, somewhere along the way, Parliament realized they were the king-makers. Meaning, they were the power, no matter who wore the crown, no matter what the theory was about the source of the power--people or sovereign (king). Nevermind who was the theoretical or legal source of the power, Parliament was the power. (And, still is today.)

So, Charles II eventually died, and his brother James II took over. James screwed up. Badly. When Parliament raised an army, on the morning of the battle, Jimmy Two fled. Damn. No king. Parliament looked around and realized James II's daughter, Mary, was in line for the throne. Problem: She was older and already married to this guy named William of Hanover. Problem: If Mary becomes queen, then William is king. Hmmmmm. So, an arrangement was worked out. Mary and William reigned jointly, but William lost his power if Mary dies. Oh--and the most important part: the Declaration of Rights of 1689. Parliament requires, as part of the deal, that William and Mary agree to the Declaration of Rights. William doesn't really care. He's not all that interested. He agrees. So does Mary.

Thus, Parliament calls the shots--not the king, not the queen.**

By the time Queen Anne comes along, Parliament has tied the hands of the monarch. Geo. III acted behind the scenes--he had to, there was almost no political power left to him. He was an outlier. He acted outside the bounds of the restrictions placed on him by earlier Parliaments. I am guessing the reason he is named in the Declaration of Independence is because he is the fount of political power (the sovereign) and the colonials probably had some idea of his machinations, even across 3K miles of ocean. But, its definitely not like George III was calling all the shots on the colonies. It was mostly Parliament.


**Even today, when Elizabeth II opens Parliament, she reads a speech prepared for her by Parliament. She is essentially reading back to Parliament the legislative agenda that the powers in Parliament decided for her.
 
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utbagpiper

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Fail on multiple levels.
....

A full page of suspect history and yet not a single peep about where we might go to escape all these evils of government with which you insist on hijacking all manner of threads. Diversion perhaps?

Or did you just fail to get around to telling us where these wonder anarchist utopians can be found, or at least explaining why your favored social/political theories cannot be found in the world today.

Again, Anarchy is the best form of society until you actually put it into practice.

Charles
 
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solus

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A full page of suspect history and yet not a single peep about where we might go to escape all these evils of government with which you insist on hijacking all manner of threads. Diversion perhaps?

Or did you just fail to get around to telling us where these wonder anarchist utopians can be found, or at least explaining why your favored social/political theories cannot be found in the world today.

Again, Anarchy is the best form of society until you actually put it into practice.

Charles

Now there is the condescending nature we have come to expect from you mate...

that, coupled with the fact there was not one iota of information on why Citizen's dialogue is suspect, just that you consider it is based on your perspective...

further your 'shameless borrowing' of the the phrase, quote: Anarchy is the best form of society until you actually put it into practice. unquote, without context from whom you have 'borrowed' the phrase from makes the term quite meaningless per se.

ipse
 
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Citizen

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Now there is the condescending nature we have come to expect from you mate...

that, coupled with the fact there was not one iota of information on why Citizen's dialogue is suspect, just that you consider it is based on your perspective...

further your 'shameless borrowing' of the the phrase, quote: Anarchy is the best form of society until you actually put it into practice. unquote, without context from whom you have 'borrowed' the phrase from makes the term quite meaningless per se.

ipse

Thanks for noticing. And, thanks for saying so.

Also, I notice he went off on a tangent against anarchism instead of rebutting my points. Instead of explaining how or why my criticisms were wrong/fallacious/illogical, he decided to perpetrate non-sequitur and an ad hominem attack. Almost all posters abandon such irrational tactics early in their careers here after they're called on them.

Particularly egregious was his attack against me about hijacking threads. First, instead of showing how I hijacked this thread--when the mod was looking and personally posted--he goes off on a generality accusing me of hijacking lotsa threads as a complaint about my post in this thread--a post he didn't rebutt. Second, he does not explain how posters are limited to only discussing Scalia's conservatism. Seemingly, in his mind, a poster can only support or reject a conservative, Scalia-like replacement to SCOTUS. A third viewpoint that rejects both liberal and conservative viewpoints is in his mind a hijacking of the thread. No third viewpoint is admissible to him. Such is a thread hijack according to him. No, no, no. Can't discuss an alternative--its a hijack. You must only discuss liberalism or conservatism on SCOTUS in the wake of Scalia's passing.

And, the best part (to me): he accuses me of failing to offer an alternative to the status quo. (Keep in mind that his commentary is in lieu of actually rebutting my points.) Time to swing back to your adverb about condescension. He accuses me of failing to offer an alternative. Yet, I am not the one who arrogantly sets myself above others. My view treats others as equals. I would've thought that somebody who arrogantly sets himself above other peaceful equals (or views peaceful equals as below him) and inflicts government on them was the person who needed to explain himself. Yet, as you cogently and trenchantly recognize, he condescends.
 
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OC for ME

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Nothing suspect regarding of the British Parliament during the late 1700's. The colonials had a government located in Briton. The claims of The Founders illustrated a tyrannical government at work, not a lack of (as in non existent) government.

Is Fed.gov of today as tyrannical as the British government back in the day? It depends on who you ask.
 

OC for ME

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White Oak Plantation
A good error is better than a bad question.
Saying it twice does not make it true...in most cases that is. ;)

Ya know, cops make "good errors" and never even asked a question to begin with. The results of a good error by cops good result in a really bad outcome...for somebody that is.
 
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