Scenario: What would you do?

[HankT]

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Tomahawk wrote:

Hey Hank, is the sky blue?

No. I don't think it is.

What do you think about this thread's scenario, T-hawk? What would you do? I think it's a toughie.

 

[Mini14]

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I was thinking of the other children present. And .'Cho'. is the name of the maniac who shot all those at Va. Tech.

Acting to prevent a massacreis what I meant.

 

[USN_MA1]

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I guess my simple question doesnt rate an answer.

 

[Tomahawk]

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HankT wrote:

What do you think about this thread's scenario, T-hawk? What would you do? I think it's a toughie.

I may or may not be OC'ing. If the latter, the guy probably hasn't noticed, else he would likely have moved along to an easier target (He wouldn't "shoot me first" necessarily). If CC'ing, try to prepare to draw. If you can, draw and keep the weapon out of view behind you.

Move slowly, observe, think quickly.

Is he talking to someone else? Is he really paying attention to what you or anyone else is doing, or is he distracted by something? What do his eyes look like, are they glazed, or does he look alert and attentive? Can you move into a good position to cover him without getting his attention? What kind of gun does he have? Is it something with a heavy trigger pull, likea DAO revolver, or is it a cocked SA, or is it even a real. loaded,gun? Who's near him and what are they doing? Is he alone?

All these things must be considered and processed before I could answer the question of what I would do. You may not have the time to find all the information; in that case you have to decide based on what you've got. You may decide to do nothing and let somebody pay the guy.

If you decide to fight, be decisive. Fight like a rabid pitbull. The time for thinking has passed, no turning back.

So I can't answer your question, Hank, but I can try to tune my decision-making process by thinking about it.

 

[Particle]

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This scenerio seems more like a movie than a possible real-life encounter.

How about an option to try to end the scenerio non-violently by at least giving the verbal option for him to surrender? It might not work, but it's worth a shot. Everyone goes home alive if they take it.

 

[AbNo]

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Re: OP

Too many variables in the situation.

Lighting, cover, blocked shots.

 

[LoveMyCountry]

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The answer is really simple. You just lay on the ground so BG can't see you and shoot him in the toe with a 5.56 round. The bullet will "tumble" in his body, following the bones up until it comes out the top of his head, neutralizing the threat intstantly. I leaned that on the Intertubes.



LoveMyCountry

 

[Bravo_Sierra]

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HankT wrote:

***You can selectmultiple answers in this poll***



You're OCing at a privateresidence...a party. You've been there for an hour and have been visiting with family and some of their friends.Everything is fine.You're on the back patio enjoying conversation, good eats and good cheer. You have your SIG 229 in a Serpa hoster on your right hip. You have 1 spare mag on your weak side. The kids have finally stopped asking you about the gun.

There are children and adults at the party. Your uncle is there with his wife. A couple of nephews under 10 years old. Some friends of your uncle are there, a professional couple, he a financial analyst, she a librarian. You notice some other kids there, including a 14 year old girl with long curly hair. That's Caroline. She's a sophomore at a close-by public high school. She wears wire rim glasses and she is very polite. She is a daughter of one of your uncle's friends.

Good vittles! Cheese, wine (Château Malescot St.-Exupéry--a bit too light, but quite resonant), crackers, canapes, the works. It was catered. It's late afternoon. Plenty of daylight left...

You're facing the back of the house, away from the backyard fence, talking to the librarian when you hear the scream...

Ahooded man had slid in through an open gate and put the barrel of a handgun (Glock! Maybe a 23. Or 19.) to the head of Caroline. She is red-eyed and shrieking, holding her hands up to her head.The women and other kids start yelling. You turn around and hear the guy say, "Give me your money, or I'll start shooting!"

What do you do?

***You can selectmultiple answers in this poll***

There are certain times when you need to break open a can of MAN and do God's work. Shoot the bastard, tac-load a fresh mag and work on another target. Once the threat is neutralized, holster your weapon and call 911.

 

[CA_Libertarian]

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HankT wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

The brain is an amazing at collecting and analyzing situational information subconsciously. The choice to shoot would be based on this instinctual analysis. When seconds count, it's the best tool you have.

Part of this "situational information" includes "microexpressions." I read an article on this once in Reader's Digest where they did studies of facial expressions people exhibit for fractions of a second before masking them to hide fear, anger, etc. If you're looking, your brain will pick up on this, and will give you some insight into the person's state of mind and intentions.

Very interesting. What're the other parts of the situational information?

Things like, where exactly is every person standing... is there nearby cover in case he turns the gun on me... how much of a target is he presenting (how much cover is the hostage providing)... etc

And don't you have to be trained to pick up the microexpressions? And if you were trained, what kind of insight would you get if you picked up, say, "fear?" Or anger? If the guy pointing a gun at Caroline's head is in "fear," or is angry, what does that do for you in handling the tactical situation? Is there a microexpression that would tell you that, say, the guy won't shoot? Or definitely will?

To my knowledge, there's no formal training on microexpressions. It's mostly self-training through experience. This is something that most of us do subconsciously. Usually, you don't consciously recognize the signs you see, but it is what gives you that "gut feeling."

I can't find the original Reader's Digest article, but here's a New Yorker article
. The story at the beginning of the article was part of the RD article, if I remember correctly. It's a lengthy article, but a very interesting read.

 

[Tomahawk]

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It's also a good bet that many folks know exactly what they would do in this situation, but aren't willing to post it on the interweb.

 

[Pa. Patriot]

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Tomahawk wrote:

It's also a good bet that many folks know exactly what they would do in this situation, but aren't willing to post it on the interweb.

Like crap themselves :lol:

 

[Tomahawk]

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Pa. Patriot wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

It's also a good bet that many folks know exactly what they would do in this situation, but aren't willing to post it on the interweb.

Like crap themselves :lol:

Like provide fodder for some future prosecuter after he confiscates your hard drive and looks for stuff to use against you.

 

[CA_Libertarian]

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Tomahawk wrote:

Pa. Patriot wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

It's also a good bet that many folks know exactly what they would do in this situation, but aren't willing to post it on the interweb.

Like crap themselves :lol:

Like provide fodder for some future prosecuter after he confiscates your hard drive and looks for stuff to use against you.

Prosecution for Justifiable Homocide? Conspiracy to commit justifiable homocide? I'm not sure how any answer in this situation could be illegal.

... Maybe there's some VA law that I'm not aware of, but here in CA, the law allows the killing of people threatening death or great bodily harm... and there's no law against conspiring to do legal things.

 

[Tomahawk]

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

Pa. Patriot wrote:

Tomahawk wrote:

It's also a good bet that many folks know exactly what they would do in this situation, but aren't willing to post it on the interweb.

Like crap themselves :lol:

Like provide fodder for some future prosecuter after he confiscates your hard drive and looks for stuff to use against you.

Prosecution for Justifiable Homocide? Conspiracy to commit justifiable homocide? I'm not sure how any answer in this situation could be illegal.

... Maybe there's some VA law that I'm not aware of, but here in CA, the law allows the killing of people threatening death or great bodily harm... and there's no law against conspiring to do legal things.

Hey, don't yell at me, I'm on your side. But lawyers, well, you know...

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Interesting. This part of the forum is for "TRUE stories of self defense"

But, I pretty much already answered in another thread, but it has been deleted.

 

[AbNo]

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I'd probably go for this...



Cyanide & Happiness @ Explosm.net

 

[CA_Libertarian]

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Tomahawk wrote:

Hey, don't yell at me, I'm on your side. But lawyers, well, you know...

Didn't mean to sound like I was yelling... just curious what evidence you have that a posting about a legal activity could lead to prosecution.

 

[River Bend]

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Once the hostage is out of the way of the muzzle, and I have a clear line of fire and distance is 10 yards or less, draw & fire a head shot and remain ready for a follow up shot if neccessary.:what:

 

[LoveMyCountry]

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Something to remember in this scenario is time. Time favors the BG. The longer he is there, the more obedient the people get. He can order everyone to gather in one area which would reduce your tactical options. He can obtain additional hostages. He also is getting what he wants - POWER and will become even bolder. If there are a dozen people telling him "I'll do whatever you want", he will start wanting more and more. He (and his cohorts, if there are any) could decide that the backyard is a bit too public and move everyone into the house where they won't be disturbed. :what:

If you wait to reveal your CC'd weapon you may just be disarmed by yourself, the BG or a well intentioned but obedient hostage will do it for him. If there are additional Badguys, waiting will allow them to get into the best tactical position for them.

Many have said that you need to find out if he has other Badguys. Why? If you neutralize the first one and two more appear, you have now gone from 3:1 odds to 2:1. If no more appear, then the threat is over.

I cannot see how putting on wool and joining the flock will make these wolves any less dangerous or you any more capable of defending yourself and others.

LoveMyCountry

 

[IdahoCorsair]

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Working out scenarios is difficult until it's really done with role players in force on force. Just too many variables to consider.
BUT here are my primary questions.

How far away is the guy? Even a small back yards can be 7-20 yards across. If it's over 5-10 yards how many of us can make a hostage situation shot EVERY time without stress? How often WITH stress?
Also since I'm limited to a Sig 229, that first DA pull would suck for a quick shot unless you bring the hammer back first... how do you do that?
Is he being a typical idiot hostage taker and exposing some of his body and all of his head?